Talk:2012 Grand National

2012 Grand National was nominated as a Sports and recreation good article, but it did not meet the good article criteria at the time (July 26, 2012). There are suggestions below for improving the article. If you can improve it, please do; it may then be renominated.

A news item involving 2012 Grand National was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the In the news section on 16 April 2012.

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Synchronised

There are somewhat conflicting reports regarding how and where Sychronised was fatally injured. He certainly fell at Becher's and the BHA have said he suffered a fractured leg, but it is not inherently clear where and how he suffered the fracture. The Guardian are reporting that he "did not appear to suffer serious injury" at Becher's but then "broke down while running loose". Until an official report from Aintree or the BHA I don't think we should explicitally blame Becher's Brook for Synchronised's death in this article. --TBM10 (talk) 10:39, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

Indeed. I've seen reports that he pulled up at the 9th, and others say the 11th. On watching it, I think he jumped the 11th and pulled up quickly on landing. I doubt he ran so far from Becher's with a fractured leg, and you're right that we have no idea that Becher's was the cause. The fracture could have occurred at any point between Becher's and the point at which he pulled up, and it seems likely to have been nearer the end of his run. Bretonbanquet (talk) 10:49, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

The BBC are reporting he ran on riderless until the 11th where he suffered the fracture. If this is indeed the case, its unfortunate the Grand National is (once again) getting so much negative press. --TBM10 (talk) 11:00, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

Yes, that's how I saw it too. But of course we get the usual people who, once a year, suddenly care about horses and want to see it all banned. It's a shame they don't have anything to say about all the real horse cruelty that goes on all year round, in fields all over the country. Bretonbanquet (talk) 11:09, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

You also get the half-truth every year that a broken leg cannot be mended. In fact they can be. But it takes time and costs money. Most of all, the horse can no longer race - hence it is 'easier' to have the horse put down. That-a-way the insurance pays out too! OldSquiffyBat (talk) 18:18, 16 April 2012 (UTC)

I'd say most can't be fixed. I've seen horses in agony with half-fixed fractures or resultant laminitis, and vets will generally advise against it, regardless of the cost factor. Any owner worth his salt would have insurance that pays out for injuries (including broken legs) anyway, so cost shouldn't be a factor. That's not to say that it's impossible to satisfactorily mend a broken leg, though it's fraught with difficulties. Bretonbanquet (talk) 18:26, 16 April 2012 (UTC)

This is with racehorses of course - a relatively sturdy riding school horse could pick up a simple or incomplete fracture and, with prompt attention, make a full recovery. But a racehorse which has fallen, sustained a complete or compound fracture, then tried to stand again or continue running, might very likely have incurred serious muscle or ligament damage from broken bone pieces, and this kind of thing is irreparable. Racehorses are more fragile than most horses, sadly, and also many do not have the temperament to cope with the treatment and the lengthy periods of immobility. Bretonbanquet (talk) 18:40, 16 April 2012 (UTC)

Plus, it depends on which bone is broken - a broken pastern is much easier to repair than a fractured humerus. Bretonbanquet (talk) 18:45, 16 April 2012 (UTC)

• Shall we add "(later euthanised)" to the Non-finishers table? Though this information is discussed in the article, the tables are, in my case, the first thing I looked to. LukeSurl ^{t c} 23:34, 16 April 2012 (UTC)

I don't think its necessary to add those details to the table, partly for consistency purposes and partly because the deaths receive a lot of coverage elsewhere in the article. They are mentioned in the lead, explained in the Race Overview, and given more attention in the Reactions sections. Also I don't want to mislead readers into thinking Synchronised was euthanised because he fell at the 6th fence, which is what it'd look like if we added "(later euthanised)" to the table. Thanks. --TBM10 (talk) 08:02, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

Finish image

Cant we have an image of the photo finish, or does the event licensing prevent that? Fig (talk) 09:37, 16 April 2012 (UTC)

GA Review

Reviewer: Michael Jester (talk · contribs) 15:32, 19 July 2012 (UTC)

This review is transcluded from Talk:2012 Grand National/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

I will be reviewing this article. As it's one of my first GA reviews, I will be asking for a second opinion after we're done. I will post comments within 24 hours.
—Michael Jester (talk · contribs) 15:32, 19 July 2012 (UTC)

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

Lead

• Try to take out the references from the lead and put them in the body of the article
• Do we need reference 1? I don't really see why it's needed
• "Neptune Collonges, ridden by Daryl Jacob, won the race, beating second-placed Sunnyhillboy in [...]" Remove second-placed
• Add something about the safety changes in the lead
• Can you add some about the race overview?
• "grey horse" -> "grey horse"
• For reference 3: "Telegraph" should be "The Daily Telegraph"

Safety changes

• Why is "National Course" in italics?
• "RSPCA" -> "Royal Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals"
• "4 ft 10 inches" -> "4 ft 10 in."

Race card

• De-wikilink British Horseracing Authority. You already linked it once in the section before
• Several references needed. Just some examples:
  • "Entries for the race had to be submitted by 31 January 2012."
  • "Synchronised was attempting to become the first horse since Golden Miller in 1934 to win both the Gold Cup and Grand National in the same year."
  • "Jockey Tony McCoy rode Synchronised and was aiming for his second Grand National success in 17 attempts."
• "[...] and following the second round of scratchings on 20 March" Missing a period?
• What does JF mean in the table?
• Not necessary, but try and see if {{ref label}} would be better instead of an asterisk (referring to your note in the table)

Race overview

• References needed, examples:
  • "The start of the race was delayed after Synchronised unseated his rider, Tony McCoy during the warm-up and got loose on the racecourse."
  • "there were further delays caused by overly-keen riders and horses breaching the starting tape twice."
  • "Jockeys, trainers, viewers and spectators waited for one-and-a-half minutes to hear the judge's official announcement [...]"
• Delink "Becher's Brook"
• Are there any free images of the race available?
• Eventually is a bad word. Either take it out or say when
• Charged seems a little POV
• "Viking Blond became the race's first faller" How did he fall?
• "His jockey Brian Hughes suffered a suspected broken cheekbone in the fall" Suspected? Either his cheekbone was broken or not
• "[...], both 16/1 shots, [...]" seems jargony. Try rephrasing to something like "[...], both of which had odds of 16/1, [...]
• "By the fourth, [...]" Fourth what?
• "prominent position" prominent seems POV
• "State of Play unseated his rider Noel Fehily and Chicago Grey and Rare Bob were brought down" -> "State of Play unseated his rider, Noel Fehily; Chicago Grey and Rare Bob were brought down"
  • Also, what do you mean by brought down?
• "and a screen was soon erected around him" what do you mean by screen?
• "Becher's Brook, the sixth obstacle, saw the well-backed Cheltenham Gold Cup winner Synchronised fall." -> "Becher's Brook, the sixth obstacle, saw the Synchronised fall." No need to hype the horses up again and again.
• "McCoy suffered a soft-tissue injury but Synchronised" comma before but
• "suffer serious injury, and he continued" probably be better with "suffer serious injury. He continued"

Reactions

• Need references for every quotation
• There are some jockey quotes that I think should be removed. For example, what is the significance of having "Tom Scudamore, whose mount Junior fell at the second fence, said: "It was brief, unfortunately.""?

Broadcasting

• Refs needed. Examples:
  • "As the Grand National is accorded the status of an event of national interest in the United Kingdom and is listed on the Ofcom Code on Sports and Other Listed & Designated Events, it is always shown on free-to-air terrestrial television in the UK."
  • "The race was aired on BBC Radio for the 80th successive year"
• Is there a need to have the entire quote box in bold?

Subsequent review

• Ref needed for "have been neither "foreseen nor prevented"".

Other issues

• Watch your POV. I see you've called something "famous" three times in the article. Also see "notable".

The main problem I see is a lack of references. Once that is fixed, this article will look great, and probably we GA-worthy.
—Michael Jester (talk · contribs) 19:05, 19 July 2012 (UTC)

Struck out comments that have been addressed. I've also added some edits to the article.

It has been a week hardly any progress has been made. The article is severely lacking references, and the prose can be improved. Thus, the article will be failed. I suggest either a peer review and maybe a copy edit. I also suggest reading WP:When to cite. If you disagree with my decision, there is WP:Good article reassessment.
—Michael Jester (talk · contribs) 23:52, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

Images

John Smith's Grand National Chase (Grade 3 Handicap) 2012

Neptune Collonges1st @ 33/1

Sunnyhillboy2nd @ 16/1

Seabass3rd @ 8/1 F

Cappa Bleu4th @ 16/1

In Compliance5th @ 100/1

Ballabriggs6th @ 12/1

Hello Bud7th @ 33/1

Tharawaat8th @ 125/1

Shakalakaboomboom9th @ 8/1 F

Swing Bill10th @ 100/1

The Midnight Club11th @ 40/1

Planet Of Sound12th @ 33/1

Neptune Equester13th @ 100/1

Calgary Bay14th @ 33/1

Midnight Haze15th @ 80/1

Black ApalachiFell @ 25/1

State of PlayUnseated Rider @ 40/1

Deep PurplePulled Up @ 25/1

Mon MomePulled Up @ 50/1

According To PeteBrought Down @ 28/1

Vic VenturiRefused @ 80/1

PostmasterPulled Up @ 100/1

TreacleFell @ 22/1

Rare BobBrought Down @ 40/1

JuniorFell @ 16/1

Arbor SupremeUnseated Rider @ 100/1

West End RockerFell @ 16/1

TatenenUnseated Rider @ 100/1

Giles CrossPulled Up @ 20/1

BecauseicouldntseeUnseated Rider @ 25/1

KillyglenUnseated Rider @ 14/1

Weird AlFell @ 28/1

Chicago GreyBrought Down @ 20/1

Always RightUnseated Rider @ 25/1

SynchronisedFell @ 10/1

Quiscover FontaineFell @ 50/1

Alfa BeatFell @ 50/1

Viking BlondFell @ 80/1

OrganisedconfusionUnseated Rider @ 20/1

On His OwnFell @ 14/1