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This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 19 August 2019 and 29 November 2019. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): AlisterMcG. Peer reviewers: Lwm1715, Ekaufman1998.
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This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 23 August 2021 and 17 December 2021. Further details are available on the course page. Peer reviewers: Bgiauque.
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"has also been on the increase in the 21st century and beyond". - when did we move beyond the 21st century? --87.63.83.70 (talk) 11:39, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
"The rise of androgyny in popular culture has also been on the increase in the 21st century and beyond" -- is this an historical fact, and is the author of this article on the Texas History Textbook Committee? Author seems to cite to an article that makes no such ridiculous claim. 75.76.145.74 (talk) 05:51, 11 March 2013 (UTC)
Needs to be moved to the correct spelling, "androgyny". -- Someone else 04:57 Feb 1, 2003 (UTC) Why didn't you just move it? Mintguy I tried, it failed. May have had something to do with the redirect that was already there? In any case, thanks for getting it done. -- Someone else 05:12 Feb 1, 2003 (UTC)
Not a fan of this page - confuses sex and gender, and comes to conclusions that I don't think are universally accepted. Martin
Major trimmage performed. Take this as an example of nonsense removed:
Okay... I don't have the feintest clue where to begin fixing this, but regarding "androgynous" flowers (I guess somebody who had the term "perfect flower" on the tip of their tongue might start here): a disambiguation link to a disambiguation page ( requiring clicking two links to get where you're going) strikes me as a Bad Thing. Just a thought.
Johndodd 06:43, 27 November 2005 (UTC)
As far as I am informed, androgyny and people changing sex is a rather common occurrence in original Asian culture (China and Japan). Can someone add info on this? If an article on this already exists, please add a link to it. SpectrumDT 14:09, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
Given that these two articles are essentially the same subject, I propose that the article Androgyne be merged into the article Androgyny. --AliceJMarkham 06:42, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
All done! I did my best but there's probably still some repetition. Tocharianne 03:16, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
I'm not sure as to whether or not the reference to Sheik in the Video Games section is really required for this article. It doesn't seem like a particularly appropriate example and is in itself a major spoiler for the later parts of the games. I've added spoiler tags around that section (although I forgot to log in before I made the change) for the time being. --Defragged 20:22, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
I think the time has come for a new page for this category. Also...this section really should have citations for verification, or people may begin to plug in hoax names. --Kukini 01:26, 19 February 2007 (UTC) The section IS getting too big. And some of the names amde me think, 'what??'.80.43.72.100 21:55, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
I feel that this section demonstrates a significant misunderstanding of the nature of performance. Although some of these "famous androgynes" may define themselves as androgynous in their private lives, most of the examples are of performers who created a character that demonstrated androgynous characteristics. The character is not the actor, and I feel that this section confuses this issue, and weakens the overall meaning and utility of this entry.--2601:D:CA00:840:D410:B3B6:41A0:FABE (talk) 16:56, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
Mana is a crossdresser, NOT an androgyne. I've removed him from the list.
Some of the anime characters listed doesn't seem very androgynous to me, for example, Cain and Abel from Trinity Blood. I haven't changed anything because I'm no expert of the subject, but I'm wondering if they were just put there because they have long hair. Ravenwolf Zero 19:48, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
Couple of days ago MJ was listed in the list. However, it was rightfully removed. Whoever added his name to the list must get his brains checked. --72.12.197.242 05:12, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
Does this comment really need to stay here? CharmlessCoin (talk) 21:29, 6 July 2012 (UTC)
I cleaned up this list a lot. People like John Lennon, Little Richard, and Sinéad O'Connor may be eccentric but have never been widely recognized for expressions of androgyny. Let's try to keep the list accurate. Also I removed Amanda Lepore from the list as from what I can see, she is transsexual and does not combine or move between feminine and masculine aspects. In fact she seems to do just the opposite; playing up the "Barbie doll" image to extremes. I suggest RuPaul for the list, as they're actually known for cultivating their gender bender image. --Greta 22:17, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
I removed Link from the list,because hes very obviously not androgynous. Whoever put that probably just looked at a picture of him or something, and they only put he was from twilight princess, which only adds to my reasoning that someone added him without knowing what they were doing. Just cuz he has a tunic which looks like a skirt thing doesnt make him androgynous 10:06 PM, 25 June 2007
Zoisite and Fish Eye from Sailor Moon were listed twice as examples in this article: once under the anime/manga section, once under the video game section. I removed them from the latter, as it seemed silly to mention the same characters twice.
I keep forgetting to sign my comments lately Ilyeana 03:55, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
Just how many manga characters do we need? It's enough, surely, to say "manga has many androgynous characters" and cite a couple of examples. Instead we have a huge meaningless list. I'd prune it back but I've no idea which are the most useful or relevant examples. Totnesmartin 18:18, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
I deleted Griffith and Caska from the list. Reasons below.
<<SPOILER WARNING>>
Whoever classified them as androgynous has not read much of the manga (Berserk). In the manga, Caska is as clearly a woman as can be - there are extremely graphic illustrations which prove beyond doubt that she is a woman and identifies with being a woman. When shit hits the fan in the story, she loses her mind and acts like a child. This does not make her androgynous.
Griffith on the other hand is portrayed to be so beautiful that he looks like "a painting in the midst of the rubble of life....blah blah blah". But he rapes a princess and then goes on to rape Caska! And Caska gives birth to Griffith's child (ok, the manga says that the child is a ghost or something equally shady, but all that proves is that they [Griffith and Caska] might be kinky and participants in demonic sex of sorts, but definitely not androgynous)
<<SPOILER ENDS>>
Is there anything to actually back up the supposed rumours about Switch from the Matrix being a transgendered character, or is that simply pure rumour and hearsay? --Jayunderscorezero (talk) 01:51, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
I believe that a while back, I saw a video on YouTube of Belinda McClory speaking to someone (probably at a convention) about how the role was originally to be played by her and someone else, as Switch was one sex in the Matrix and another in real life. This is the gist of the rumour too, I believe. Unfortunately, I can't find that video now, but that's what I'd look for, for a citation. Alas, the 1996 (legitimate? It seems it) draft of the script floating around the Internet doesn't mention this, and neither does the shooting script published in The Art of The Matrix. It's mentioned at http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0133093/trivia?tab=tr&item=tr1556522 without a citation, as far as I can tell. Zoeb (talk) 14:39, 6 December 2012 (UTC)
Help! I thought Jordan Baker from Fitzgerald's 'the Great Gatsby' would be a good addition to the list of androgynous characters in literature, although I don't know how to add to the page in so if someone could help. I've written which I think gives a good account of her androgyny :
Jordan Baker in the Great Gatsby is often thougt to be an androgynous figure. This is suggessted by her adrogynous name - 'Jordan', her figure of 'a slender, small-breasted girl with an erect carriage which she accentuated by throwing her body backward at the shoulders like a young cadet', the way Nick notes 'a faint mustache of perspiration' on her upper lip and her career of professional golfer in the 1920's seems to masculinze her.
I also wonder whether it's worth mentioning that Fitzgerld doesn't directly state she is androgynous, it has been suggested by so many critics that it's generally accepted she is. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.19.31.187 (talk) 19:24, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
The list of musicians is growing apace, and no doubt could grow much further. There aren't good objective guidelines of who belongs on the list, and I fear it's likely to grow into listcruft. As usual, we could move the list to a separate article (which will run the same risk), remove it and replace it with a paragraph of prose with a few non-exhaustive examples, replace it with a category, or apply strict criteria to keep it in check. Thoughts? I generally favour the "replace with para" option, since I doubt that an exhaustive list is either attainable or needed. Pseudomonas(talk) 13:50, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
Since no-one seemed to like the existing situation, I've removed the better part of it. I retained the short paragraphs on music and anime/manga. New additions should be sourced as androgenous, and included in paragraphs, not trivial lists. As I believe I took care of the trivia situation, I've removed the tag. carl bunderson (talk) (contributions) 23:38, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
it could be said that some pepole veiw it as a fashion choice i don't have one place i get this information from but look at say emo do you honestly think that all of them do not veiw them selves as male an i am androgynous an veiw my self as male if you say that any one who is androgynous don't see them selves as being a part of the male gender then it not good information to be puting on wikipedia —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jamie6superstar (talk • contribs) 11:50, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
This page seems to be all about gender identity, but I've always heard the term Androgynous used to refer to mixed physical gender characteristics, synonymous with hermaphrodite. Shouldn't the page mention this usage? 118.208.141.207 (talk) 13:02, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
Hate to break it to you Zazaban, but you're wrong, and the OP of this question is right. 7rin (talk) 17:14, 15 August 2012 (UTC)
It is inaccurate to say that genderqueer is not a gender identity and simply describes unconventional gender behavior:
"Genderqueer is not specific to androgynes, does not denote gender identity, and may refer to any person, cisgender or transgender, whose behavior falls outside conventional gender norms."
In fact, this statement directly contradicts the opening paragraph on the genderqueer article it links to. It is true that it is a politicized term, carrying sociopolitical connotation, and may not be applicable to androgynous people.
Greenchilefrog (talk) 19:50, 4 October 2009 (UTC)
I am shocked that there is no mention of Pat from SNL here. There was also a movie made from the SNL sketch It's Pat. Dreammaker182 (talk) 04:55, 16 October 2009 (UTC)
Where does this piece of information come from? The word is already used by Plato (Symposium 189e) in the 4th century BC to describe a type of pseudo-legendary human being with both a male and a female body. Other classical Greek writers use it as a derogatory term referring to a male with perceived "womanly" or "effeminate" tendencies, a usage also documented by Plato in the abovementioned dialogue, nearly a century before Alexander the Great gave the rabbis any incentive to begin learning the Greek language. See Liddell & Scott: a Greek-English Lexicon for details.
80.221.23.26 (talk) 19:34, 17 December 2009 (UTC)
11 years late, but I assume the info came from the word being in the Mishnah, which was written circa 200 CE. I ended up here because I just came across the word whilst studying and was shocked to find it written and pronounced the same as we do today in English so I went to look up the etymology of the word. Palmer House (talk) 18:57, 8 March 2021 (UTC)
the article reads "According to Sandra Bem, androgynous men and women are more flexible and more mentally healthy than either masculine or feminine individuals..." does this mean physical flexibility or personality flexibility? 50.47.140.236 (talk) 13:45, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
More recent research has at least questioned the superiority of A., it would be good to mention that. I tried and it was immediately undone by an overzealous editor. Just goes to show how poorly researched this article is! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.11.210.76 (talk) 13:47, 12 June 2012 (UTC)
i don't know how to do so and anyway is it really the case that any edit that doesn't make its citations obvious is "vandalism"? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.11.210.76 (talk) 00:06, 13 June 2012 (UTC)
you don't have to go far on google to find research that runs against bem's original stuff. i would expect someone to have some proficieny in the topic before calling seemingly reasonable edits "vandalism", which is appears you do not have... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.11.210.76 (talk) 00:10, 13 June 2012 (UTC)
reference 13. it's a forum. it's a forum on something called "echo chamber." and it's pointing specifically to a few posts by one person in this one topic on this forum site. now...i read some of it, and it was quite interesting, and it's relevant to some of the discussion on this page. BUT...i'm not sure it should be used as a source for a sentence that defines "agenderism." a term that is, i believe, not entirely accepted/settled? using a comment on a forum doesn't help to settle this word.Colbey84 (talk) 08:01, 13 October 2015 (UTC)
I recently updated the Fashion History section by adding in about Jaden Smith but now I'm thinking if he is worthy or not of being mentioned on this page? Or is that a silly question? I know he is no David Bowie or Boy George but was not sure who I should have mentioned to represent the time of now for androgynous fashion --Yazmin21 (talk) 11:36, 20 February 2017 (UTC)
I had assumed an article about androgny would talk about physically androgenous people - mainly. Instead there is barely a mention of people who are born with a body that is both male and female. The article seems to be largely about people choosing to wear masculine or feminine clothes, hairstyles etc.. Which, although relelvant, is a much smaller and much less relevant issue than genuine physical androgyny. The greek statue (pictured in the article) is virtually the only reference to physical androgyny. Poor article. Needs a substantial re-write. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.29.145.156 (talk) 22:03, 10 January 2018 (UTC)
Does anyone else feel that androgyny in fashion, or specific people considered by be androgynous, are entirely separate topics? I'd like to split "Androgyny in Fashion" into a separate article. In addition, in order to use more neutral language, I'm removing all instances of "opposite" sex, and reorganizing the article to be clearer about the differences between the different, distinct meanings of androgyny (e.g. biological sex, gender expression, gender identity.) Kododendron (talk) 18:38, 15 March 2019 (UTC)
They should also remove content that relates androgyny to transsexualism, they are totally different things Hastengeims (talk) 01:56, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
Category:Genderqueer has been nominated for renaming. You are encouraged to join the discussion on the Categories for discussion page.
Thought this was relevant to this page and yes I am the nominator. --Devin Kira Murphy (talk) 03:44, 29 July 2019 (UTC)
AlisterMcG, regarding this, this, and this, I'm not stating that the unsourced material should be restored, but you do know that WP:Reliable sources speak of sexual orientation/sexual identity with regard to androgyny and that this aspect should be covered in the article, don't you? Speaking of androgyny with regard to sexual orientation and/or sexual identity is not automatically conflating the two. And regarding that last URL link, I'm not sure what you are speaking of when it comes what is outdated and offensive.
I ask that you do not WP:Ping me if you reply. If you do reply, I ask that you reply here, not on my talk page. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 16:00, 16 November 2019 (UTC)
the article has several problems and has to be removed, the vandalism is too much and has too many errors Hastengeims (talk) 18:28, 29 December 2020 (UTC)
in this article it is confused with transgender people and androgyny and they are totally different definitions that is why this article has to be eliminated Hastengeims (talk) 16:42, 26 February 2021 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 24 January 2022 and 13 May 2022. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): J.bust0s23 (article contribs). Peer reviewers: Ethan.jl.
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 24 January 2022 and 13 May 2022. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): J.bust0s23 (article contribs). Peer reviewers: Ethan.jl.
@I dream of horses: ty for the welcome. I appreciate that my edit linking characteristics is to a disambig page but I do think the link aids critical thinking. "Expression" is "the action of making known one's thoughts or feelings." But Can characteristics be "expressed"? Can Primary sex characteristics be expressed? Can secondary sex characteristics be expressed? Hazardous to Health (talk) (INTJ IQ:149 culture fair) 00:02, 21 May 2022 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 18:22, 29 October 2022 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 22 January 2024 and 10 May 2024. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Bill hater (article contribs). Peer reviewers: Alettertoelise79, NorthShoreLoon.
— Assignment last updated by NorthShoreLoon (talk) 19:46, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
The redirect Shman has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 April 25 § Shman until a consensus is reached. Utopes (talk / cont) 04:32, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
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