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Is there a source for current modern Arawak populations?? Grason1129 (talk) 23:43, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
Columbus writes in his diary, "As soon as I arrived in the Indies, on the first Island which I found, I took some of the natives by force in order that they might learn and might give me information of whatever there is in these parts."
IS there any reason this in not a redirect to taino? Rich Farmbrough 01:15, 7 Nov 2004 (UTC)
No - Taino is a term specific to the more highly cultured groups in Puerto Rico and Hispaniola; the Bahamian and Cubans are often considered distinct, while some of the tribes in Trinidad were considered Arawak. Modern scholarship suggests that the distinction between Arawak and Carib may not be all that reasonable.
Even with regards to the Greater Antillean people, Taino is a somewhat uncertain term - it appears that the term meant "good people" and was used to distinguish them from the "bad" Caribs. But anyone who was hostile to the Spanish was "Carib". So Arawak has currency for the less developed societies in the Greater Antilles, and collectively for Lucayo, Taino and Lesser Antillean/Trinidadian people in the Caribbean. Of course it is also a widespread language family in South America Guettarda 15:14, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)
"the distinction between Arawak and Carib may not be all that reasonable"
Except that there are completely unrelated Arawakan and Carib language families, in use today in South America.
The only question is whether everyone that the Taino and/or Spanish called a "Carib" really was a member of the Carib ethnolinguistic family, or only some of them were.
In the introduction to Comparative Arawakan Histories (ed. Jonathan D. Hill and Fernando Santos-Granero, 2002, University of Illinois Press; ISBN 0-252-02758-2) they include the show the Taino of the Greater Antilles, the Karipuna of the Lesser Antilles, the Nepoya, Suppoya and Yao of Trinidad and the Lokono of the Guianas as Arawakan people, but the Kariña of the Orinoco valley and the Warao of the Orinoco delta as non-Arawaks (however, the Yao are later referred to as Carib-speaking). Taino is thus only a single entity among the many Arawak entities of the Caribbean Santos-Granero (in the same volume, Chapter titled The Arawkan Matrix: Ethos, Language and History in Native South America) states:
and then
They and other sources go on to discuss the different theories of origin of the "Island Caribs" - it seems that the old theory of Carib replacement has been largely supplanted by theories of reticulate origins, in which Carib-speaking immigrants from South America either conquered the islands and killed the men but kept the women as wives, or that they simply immigrated in and intermingled with the previous Arawak-speakers of the Lesser Antilles (sometimes referred to as Igneri, to distingish them from the Arawak-speakers of the Greater Antilles and South America). The "Island Caribs" (Kalinago) appear to have spoken an Arawakan language among the women and children, but that the men spoke a Carib language or pidgin. Neil Whitehead (same book, Chapter titled: Arawak Linguistic and Cultural Identity through Time: Contact, Colonialism and Creolization) states that Douglas Taylor (1946) "gives the orthgraphic form ni'tinao (formal friend [ws] or progenitor [ws/ms])" for Taino, while Raymond Breton (1665, 1666) "giv[es] the form ne'tegnon and nitino/neteno (husband's father, husband's mother, or daughter's husband [ws])" (ws = woman speaking, ms = man speaking). However, he states that guatiao is the older term - used by Columbus for the "tractable" natives; aruaca was first used for the Lokono - derived from the word aru, manioc flour, their primary item of trade. The word Taíno was coined by Constantine Rafinesque in 1836 in his book The American Nations; or, Outlines of Their General History, Ancient and Modern.
Additional info:
Shirley McGinnis (1997) in Ideographic Expression in the Precolumbian Caribbean (Ph.D. Dissertation, University of Texas at Austin) stated that:
also, during the second voyage, Dr. Chanca of Seville wrote (about people when they landed in Gaudeloupe):
Guettarda 21:14, 12 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Is is safe to assume that yuca is meant, rather than yucca? — Pekinensis 20:25, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Tagged this article to be cleaned up due to a lack of divisions and some necessary information such as populations (before eradication).
"Most scholars believe that of the Ciboney, Taino and Carib, only the Carib survive today. Although some groups have claimed to be descendants of the Taino, this is academically viewed as highly unlikely."
Compare Ethnologue http://www.ethnologue.com/show_language.asp?code=tnq :
"Members of the ethnic group now speak Spanish, or a Spanish-Taino mixed language, not understood by Spanish speakers. They estimate the present language to be 55% Taino and 45% Spanish."
Even if this isn't a redirect, might it not be a good idea to merge the Taino and Arawak articles? This article seems to draw a lot of information from the larger Taino article and the Taino are supposed to be the smaller group, not the larger group. Bold text
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"Columbus, in his log, noted: "They brought us parrots and balls of cotton and spears and many other things, which they exchanged for the glass beads and hawks' bells. They willingly traded everything they owned . . . they do not bear arms, and do not know them, for I showed them a sword, they took it by the edge and cut themselves out of ignorance . . .. Their spears are made of cane . . . they would make fine servants . . .. With fifty men we could subjugate them all and make them do whatever we want.""
On what date was this log entry made? What is the log entry in it's original Spanish? Where can I inspect this log entry?
If I do not receive an answer within one week, this passage will be deleted.
No, Howard Zinn is not an acceptable source. --152.160.63.125 23:51, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
I have found different versions of this log entry, one of which is neatly quoted on Wikipedia here.
This one is from here:
And this one is from here:
His words are not quite as sinister as "Akwesane Notes" and Howard Zinn led us to believe. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.167.145.18 (talk • contribs) 2006-11-05.
You might try The Diario of Christopher Columbus's First Voyage to America: Transcribed and Translated into English, With Notes And A Concordance Of The Spanish, edited by Oliver Dunn and James E. Kelley, Jr. This was published by the University of Oklahoma Press at Norman in 1989. As far as I know it is a print text only and copyright protected. With the exception of the last sentence fragment, the quote in question seems to me to be extracted from various parts of Columbus' log entry for October 11, 1492. The last sentence fragment, though, comes, I believe, from his entry on October 14th. The Dunn and Kelley translation which includes the Spanish on the left and the English on the right appears to be the most authoritative transcription and translation thus far of las Casas' version of Columbus' Diario.
This is my first contribution to Wiki and I hope this helps. Let me know if I neglected to follow important conventions. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 128.143.100.146 (talk •
I have all of CC's translated logs, some maps, and some various other effects related to him. The main portion of the quote is correct, that of the hospitality of the arawaks when CC arrived; however, the rest is laced with things I cannot find or grossly taken out of context. This distortion should easily be seen, as the old version says "they had no weapons" followed by "their spears were made of cane". Arawaks definitely had weapons, which they used to subject and nearly kill off the more peaceful shell culture based Ciboney.Ernham 15:48, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
contribs).
Please reference tonight's diff's to see the POV unsourced statements introduced into the article. Ronbo76 04:15, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
Does anyone have any maps showing the location of the Arawaks i believe they were located on the Islands of the Carrabean (sorry spelling) would be nice if we had some maps, i have looked but cant find any usable ones....
the arawaks painted there face because of spirtual and magical reasons. they believed that if they put these paintings on there face it would keep mosiqutos and evil spirts away —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.231.44.158 (talk) 19:02, 1 November 2008 (UTC)
The Taino and other Arawak, as the article clearly states, were spread throughout the Caribbean and the Spanish Main. However brutal Columbus' behavior during his brief reign on Hispaniola, it clearly could not cause Arawak population decline throughout this whole region, only a tiny part of which he ever controlled. It is also anachronistic to blame Columbus for the encomienda system introduced long after his removal as governor. I have consequently edited the population decline section.Pirate Dan (talk) 22:14, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
Please reference the Wiki thread for the Island of Roatan, Honduras. It should be cited as a surviving population.
Should this article be about the Taino etc. in the Caribbean, or about all of the peoples who speak Arawakan languages? Are the latter an ethnicity at all, or are they only linked by linguists and those following linguistic classifications? Maybe restrict the article to a single ethnicity [can we define it? speakers of Ta-Arawak languages, maybe?], but note that the term is ofter used broadly, and move to Arawak people? — kwami (talk) 09:41, 24 April 2011 (UTC)
The second paragraph is very difficult to understand in its current form. If possible, please re-write. 69.65.74.174 (talk) 10:48, 6 July 2012 (UTC)
Similar to our articles on the Carib peoples (ie, Kalina people and Island Caribs), this article is very confused. Currently, it mostly discusses Arawaks in the Caribbean, meaning it largely just duplicates Taíno, which in its modern definition simply covers the Arawaks of the Caribbean. There is basically no information here (or anywhere) on the South American Arawaks, or Lokono. Further, the name "Arawak peoples" implies it covers several groups, instead of just one group or related groups. I haven't heard the term "Arawak" used to describe all speakers of Arawakan languages. As such, we have:
As such, I propose we do the following:
I'll get started on this now.--Cúchullain t/c 17:16, 16 June 2014 (UTC)
As of now, the history section makes references to Columbus' involvement in Arawak decline but leaves out a lot of crucial facts. This is not to say that he caused the decline throughout the entire region the Arawak natives inhabited, but he did directly cause hundreds of thousands of deaths in the Caribbean. Also, the history section says that "at some point, the Arawak natives just magically appeared in the Caribbean." Can somebody please add some information regarding the inhabitation of Xaymaca (Jamaica) and the spreading of Arawak natives into the rest of the Caribbean? Also, can somebody add some names to the "Arawak People" section? Here are some places to start:
Evan.j.miranda (talk) 00:24, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Arawak/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.
Comment(s) | Press [show] to view → |
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Alright, this is an OK start to an article. There needs to be citations throughout from reliable scholarly sources. This subject is of high importance, therefore. Efforts within the "Caribbean Portal" need to concentrate on this issue. Next, the article did not mention any dates that the Arawaks inhabited the Caribbean. This is needed to convey some sense of chronology. Lastly, I had to edit a portion of this article only a few minutes ago that read, "Jamaal is a survivor too!" Probably a test of Wikipedia's editing skills or maybe even a practical joke. We need to work on editing, researching, and further improving this small, uninformative article. It needs to delve into a more intelligent realm. If someone were to read this article, I don't even know if they would come away learning anything. I think I learned more about the Arawaks from Howard Zinn's A Peoples History of the United States, a book that dealt mostly with the struggles and interests of Americans. Unfortunately I specialize in European History (1700s), therefore I am not an expert on this subject. However, somebody (a Caribbean Studies professor/major, a Latin American historian, or even an American Studies expert) might be able to go into more depth than this article. Blackteebox (talk) 02:44, 10 December 2008 (UTC) |
Last edited at 20:11, 16 June 2014 (UTC). Substituted at 08:09, 29 April 2016 (UTC)
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English voice 2605:A200:9501:3BB9:D81C:BEA0:E64D:3928 (talk) 04:43, 13 September 2022 (UTC)
"By 1493 many Taínos were starting to be enslaved and the population taking a big hit due to the diseases the Spaniards brought to the islands, such as smallpox and syphilis, from lack of bathing & from raping woman"
Wrong grammar and no citations. The whole section is filled with paragraphs like these. Omar Jabarin (talk) 11:39, 2 August 2024 (UTC)
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