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I don't know where you people got your numbers from but Armenians in Iran are about 100-200 thousand at best, and not 400 thousand. Majority of them left Iran after the 1979 revolution.
Here's a link http://www.minorityrights.org/?lid=5109&tmpl=printpage
ALSO I find it ridiculous that there is no mention whatsoever of the amount of ARMENIANS that reside & live in TURKEY today!! For GOD SAKES there is close too 100,000 ARMENIANS living in Turkey today, especially in ISTANBUL! I am Armenian from Istanbul.. I visit Istanbul every year and I LOVE IT there, nothing beats it to be honest & I Hate coming back to TORONTO! There are thousands of other ARMENIANS in TURKEY that dont even know that they are ARMENIAN!! The Armenians that live in Turkey today are the actual REAL Armenians believe it or not. The Armenian dialect spoken in Turkey is the REAL Armenian Dialect! The Armenian dialects spoken in ARMENIA, IRAN etc is not the real armenian!
"The population of Armenians in Iran before the revolution was estimated at 300,000 and their population in the year 2000 at 150,000 by their own Archbishop Babian, though some quote the higher figure of 200,000). Many emigrated to Armenia after the revolution."
^^^^ I got this info from the site, which says there are only 100-200 thousand armenians in Iran and not 400 thousand.
so please puy up the real number.
—Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.255.25.227 (talk) 09:16, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
with the invation of sea people from balkans to anatolia which caused the collopse of Hitit empire, frigians came to anatolia with greek tribes (ioanians and mysians) around 12 BC and settled in central anatolia converged with some anatolians. this is the reason why Today the closest languages to armenian are spoken in west balkans.(Albanian, latin, greek) Frigians are the ansestors of Armenians. Friginans language is the closest ancient language to armenian language. and during romans and partians wars armenians always sided romans. therefore the Romans get armenian population migrated furter to the east of anatolia from central anatolia and cukurova to control the lands which under the rule of partians between 1 BC to 3 AD.
Urardians are the contemprary of prigians in the east, they spoke a completely different lanunage from frigians. Urardians language is much closer to kurdish kurmanci dialects. and Dna of the bones found in urardian burials are different from armenians and and the same as the members of kurmanci tribes living in that area today. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.245.66.61 (talk) 23:11, 1 March 2008 (UTC)
Dude sorry but Kurdish Theory is not based on facts... Kurdish languages belong to the northwestern sub-group of the Iranian languages, which themselves belong to the Indo-Iranian branch of the Indo-European language family. When Hurrian and Urartuan belongs to theyr own group... The most close languages to Urartuan and Hurrian are Nakh-Daghestan Language group but even they need to further researchs to say they are Relative... Liberatium (talk) 04:56, 24 July 2009 (UTC)
Is there any information of the genetic characteristics of Armenians and other ethnic groups to which they are biologically related? I am interested in this subject but unable to find relevant material. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.126.252.242 (talk) 01:12, 23 January 2007 (UTC).
Hey I've come across a lot of genetic studies on Armenians, including
"Testing hypotheses of language replacement in the Caucasus: evidence from the Y-chromosome" It can be found easily on the web, and it demonstrates that Armenians and Azeris are more closely related than the latter are to Turks, or the Armenians are to other indo-european speakers. —Preceding unsigned comment added by E10ddie (talk • contribs) 23:46, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
Armenians are of turkish origin (42%), according to igenea (a Swiss Institute for Genetic Research)
--Babaeski (talk) 18:35, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
Besides the fact that its being added by ararat arev. Is there another reason why its being deleted? IMO it looks much better then the 70's picture.Vartanm 02:20, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
I wouldn't mind the dance picture either actually. - Fedayee 02:17, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
NK is not independent state. And I don't know why you are bringing disputable assumptions to this case to this article which is about the nation.--Dacy69 22:25, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
I should formally propose mediation for that article (ROOB323 and Fedayee). Removal of well-known info is not acceptable. If mediation will not be accepted - I will resort to arbitration.--Dacy69 18:05, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
I don't think this article should be listed under this category. For one thing, there are very few Armenians living under the jurisdiction of Azerbaijan's government. Those that are live in mixed marriages with Azerbaijanis. This community is not as large nor as notable as the ones in Russia, France, Iran, Georgia, Syria, Lebanon, Ukraine, and Turkey. Karabakh should be treated differently as it is not fully integrated into Azerbaijan. -- Aivazovsky 12:13, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
Shouldn't we change this article name to Armenian people to be more consistent with the other article titles? — Stevey7788 (talk) 02:57, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
I don't think that is necessary, I see plenty of ethnic group articles without the 'People' addition behind it; examples : Georgians, Germans, Greeks, Russians, Jews, Arabs, Circassians, etc.. In any case, since there is nothing you can confuse Armenians with, I see no reason to change it. The Myotis 04:05, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
1 - Logo which indicates NK as decafto independent state. I would like to drwa your attention to map on page Nagorno-Karabakh War. It says - "Nagorno-Karabakh is currently a de facto independent republic in the South Caucasus, but is officially recognized as part of the Republic of Azerbaijan". So it is in accordance with international law (and no one can say that we don't care about IL) as well as in accordance with other Wiki pages.
2 - My second edits are about the appearance of Armenians in Eastern Anatolia. Current version endorces mostly nationalist version of Armenian scholars (plus Gamkrelidze-Ivanov theory). We had extaensive discussion about that on page Urartu. Many Western sources maintain that Armenians appeared in EA in 7-6 BC. And even Armenian MFA claims that)
So, if we mention Armenian theory we have a full right to mention other sources and theories--Dacy69 15:56, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
Since the term “Armenian” is thought to derive from the Armen tribe who lived in east Anatolia prior to Urartu, it would seem strange that the same name would be given to an invading tribe who appeared much later. Who recorded this invasion, I would like to know, and what was their name for the migratory tribes. I have also noted that some of your sources self-contradict. Encyclopedia Britannica online, for example, both states that the Armenians replaced Urartians, and that they were called ‘Urartians’ by the Greeks. None of these three sources cite specific records or research, and we have known way of knowing where they got their information (except maybe from each other). I would prefer sources from an historical research site, university or book, rather than an unlinked page and a unsourced online encyclopedia. Another thing, even if a nomadic tribe did migrate into and merge with native inhabitants of Urartu, wouldn’t that just adds some new elements to the culture already there, rather than, as you seem to be stating, creating a brand-new ethno/cultural group. The Myotis 00:13, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
This whole issue was debated exstensively on page Urartu in terms of Urartu-Armenian relations. I don't think we need to repeat it here. You can look at Talk page on Urartu. I made reference to specific books, as you wish to get, for example B.Piotrovsky, who was one of major historians of Urartu. Here since it is mentioned that Armenians appeared in EA 4,000 years ago, which is out of any mainstream theory, I put one sentence of major view on this matter. Even some Armenian historians do not believe that they appeared in EA 4,000 years ago. Anyway, encyclopedic sources can be referenced in Wiki.--Dacy69 14:55, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
It will be also good to quote sources which state that Armenians originated in EA and the Caucasus. I have only one - Gamkrelidze-Ivanov theory which basicly declined by many historians. Again - this debate was on Urartu page. However, editors of this article decided to put it straight - Armenians originated in EA (?) --Dacy69 15:03, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
user:Artaxiad please stop your game of blaming everyone except youself in edit war. I am here on talkpage long ago. I haven't seen user:Vartanm and you here.--Dacy69 21:01, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
It is exactly your problem - you should leave comments here and not just saying the same - it is POV but make appropriate references and support your arguments.--Dacy69 03:39, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
The majority of western sources consider Urartu to be the direct ancestral cultural entity of the Armenians. If you want to shove back the Armenian 'start date' then you will have to prove that the people called 'Armenians' by others were distinct and disconnected from Urartu. Here are some quick web sources that connect Urartu and Armenia. http://www.armeniaguide.com/html/appliedart.html http://library.thinkquest.org/C003796/gather/bc.html http://www.starspring.com/ascender/urartu/urartu.html http://www.armenian-history.com/Nyuter/HISTORY/ArmeniaBC/Urartu/kingdom_of_urartu.htm This message left by user:The Myotis
It is funny. The source from www.starspring.com indeed what I quoted on Urartu page, and it says:
Another your source: library.thinkquest.org says:
It actually proves what I argue - Armenians came later in EA, and definitely Armenians did not originate from EA as it was put now in the article. Two other sources mentioned above are Armenian.--Dacy69 17:47, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
As I mentioned once - we had exstensive discussion on Urartu-Armenians nexus on page Urartu. Please look at that article's talk page. You can find a lot of useful information and arguments of both sides. What I know for sure that wording here was twisted. Most western sources maitain migratory theory about Armenian presence in EA, but this article states vice versa. I put my references, so the reader will judge. For now I am done with that dispute. Moreover, it is a subject of Arbcom's consideration.--Dacy69 03:33, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
It is not me who started arguing here about Urartu-Armenian links. Whole debate started when my edit was put under question. And, indeed we came to resolution on Urartu page, if you looked carefully at the page. I quote: "Dacy69 has provided appropriate evidence in support of his edits. I have made a comment on the talk page of Urartu explaining that Dacy69 is making appropriate edits and inviting editors to talk to me if they have concerns. I regard the matter as closed. SilkTork 21:20, 7 January 2007 (UTC) Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:AMA_Requests_for_Assistance/Requests/December_2006/dacy69" Just some nationalist users continued argueing. But it is not my fault and this is their view.--Dacy69 22:56, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
Your edit, I suspect, was put into question due to it's rather one-sided interpretation of the facts rather than, as you seem to suspect, just because everyone who disagrees with you is a nationalist. And it does not seem you made any significant changes to the article, as nothing of the same nature you posted here is displayed there. In any case, I think this conflict is also closed and the current NPOV version should remain.The Myotis 01:49, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
I believe the matter is closed but don't understanbd why you continue argue that I have put one-sided interpretations. You, actually, failed to produce any evidence to support your claim. Your references indeed are supporting the theory which I second. It was user:Fedayee who came up with his references, and they, I believe, not overwhelmes mine. As a matter of fact, my references are much stronger. The theory which Fedayee and you are supporting is a minority view in mainstream science. And on page Urartu neutral user Dbachman supported the theory which I put forward here. As far as whose theory which I call nationalist, I would suggest you to read Philip L. Kohl, Clare Fawcett. Nationalism, Politics and the Practice of Archaeology. --Dacy69 17:57, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
I find it ridiculous that there is no mention whatsoever of the amount of ARMENIANS that reside & live in TURKEY today!! For GOD SAKES there is close too 100,000 ARMENIANS living in Turkey today, especially in ISTANBUL! There are thousands of other ARMENIANS in TURKEY that dont even know that they are ARMENIAN!! The Armenians that live in Turkey today are the actual REAL Armenians believe it or not. The Armenian dialect spoken in Turkey is the REAL Armenian Dialect! The Armenian dialects spoken in ARMENIA, IRAN etc is not the real armenian!
First of all, you are continuing your own argument. The matter is solved and requires no more discussion. Your original edit was one-sided, which is why we added the opposing thesis (producing NPOV). Whose argument you believe is stronger is irrelevant, you still can give us no original source for Britannica’s claim. And there is no 'mainstream science' view on the genetic origins of Armenians, as no ethnic group has a single genetic origin. You do, of course, realize that you yourself could easily be labeled a ‘nationalist’ from you claims; "since Armenians ‘origins’, as you put it, lie outside of Anatolia, they are racially ‘alien’ and have no right to a homeland there". But if we are to throw around that term (nationalist) to much it loses its meaning. I rather doubt, though, most academics would define Armenians by genes. And I am certainly not willing to track down some obscure political text by an unheard of author so you can prove a political point. The Myotis 00:28, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
You just are trying to twist everything here. If you look at the page's history you'll see that I came later here and indeed I added alternative theory. Initial text claimed that Armenians were oroginally from EA. So, my edit should be credited as a step to NPOV. As for original resreach - again see Urartu page and references to Diakonov and Piotrovsky. And please don't misquote me - I never claimed that if Armenians aren't originally from EA they "have no right to a homeland there" . It is your words which you try to tag to me. I believe it does not matter where people originated - they have a full right to live where they live now. Just like in Canada - white people came 300-400 hundreds years ago - so it does not mean that they should be thrown away. And again for nationalist theory, land and origin I quote from mentioned book about Nationalism and Archeology: "the "problem" only existed for those who wanted Armenians always to have lived in and controlled "historic Armenia". I haven't problem with a principle who and when lived in or migrated to somewhere. All these theories about origin or indigenous people exist only for nationalists in post-Cold war era.--Dacy69 16:39, 6 March 2007 (UTC) "
You are not reading what I am saying, Dacy. I did not actually claim that you where trying to say that Armenians have no claim to a homeland, but rather that it was how it could be interpreted, and that a person of such a vulnerable position should not use the label "nationalist" against all there opponents. In any case, using such labels is an ad hominem technique, which uses accusations of an opponents motive the object rather than actual evidence, usually due to a lack thereof. Though, I do find it interesting that you would compare Armenians in Anatolia to Caucasians in the New World. Such a comparison, you should realize, automatically insinuates that Armenians have virtually no genetic or cultural relation to the former inhabitants, and that they in fact destroyed and replaced the former inhabitants with completely foreign elements. I am not certain if that was what you intended to say with your comparison, but I must know do you believe that is true? Also, you continually state that Armenians are "not from" Anatolia, as if you believe that there was only one genetic source for Armenians (do you?). Even in the scattered sources that you do cite the theoretical migration does not wipe out and replace the inhabitants, but instead absorbs and mingles with the people already present, producing a new entity that has been labeled as "Armenians". And since the word "Armenian" has only ever been used to describe people from the area known as Armenia, I would be perfectly accurate to say that Armenians have always lived there. After all, that was were the cultural entity know as 'Armenia' was created. Please be sure to answer my two questions in your response, as this discussion is getting rather circular.The Myotis 01:29, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
I find it ridiculous that there is no mention whatsoever of the amount of ARMENIANS that reside & live in TURKEY today!! For GOD SAKES there is close too 100,000 ARMENIANS living in Turkey today, especially in ISTANBUL! There are thousands of other ARMENIANS in TURKEY that dont even know that they are ARMENIAN!! The Armenians that live in Turkey today are the actual REAL Armenians believe it or not. The Armenian dialect spoken in Turkey is the REAL Armenian Dialect! The Armenian dialects spoken in ARMENIA, IRAN etc is not the real armenian!
Dacy apart from having no life, your claims that "most Western sources," "some historians," "scholars argue that," and etc. are unsupported and baseless, as many of your other claims are. Instead of saying those words, actually provide us with NAMES of all the people you are talking about. How can you be credible when your claims are totally false and baseless to begin with. I am surprised that the editor's here even bother to argue with you, since you don't even pay attention to the rules of Wikipedia. You should not participate in any debates, arguments, or edits on Wikipedia unless you start listenting to the rules of Wikipedia, you stop reitterating yourself over and over even when you have been disproved countless numbers of times, your arguments, the data, and the information that you have provided us with are unsupported claims and those that you allege are true were disproven by almost every single editor that has encountered you or that has ever engaged in a debate with you. You are a constant pain, a cyberboor, and you hinder the efforts of many Armenian editors with your foolish nonsense. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.174.223.63 (talk) 07:17, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
Ocobot identified three dead links in this article:
I'd take care of these (recover/replace them) but the article is protected against editing by normal registered users. — Ocolon 08:22, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
Parishan, by removing the term "de-facto" and leaving "de-jure" only shows your POV agenda. Do it again and I will report you to Arbitration committee. Consider this a friendly warning. Regards VartanM 00:35, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
what else except rv you are doind in Wiki. anyway, even with de-facto name azerbaijan should be there--Dacy69 18:36, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
removed from the article
Who wrote the absurd section about Armenians love for pomegranates? If in a few days no one has responded, I will change that section or delete it.--Moosh88 00:14, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
I find it ridiculous that there is no mention whatsoever of the amount of ARMENIANS that reside & live in TURKEY today!! For GOD SAKES there is close too 100,000 ARMENIANS living in Turkey today, especially in ISTANBUL! There are thousands of other ARMENIANS in TURKEY that dont even know that they are ARMENIAN!! The Armenians that live in Turkey today are the actual REAL Armenians believe it or not. The Armenian dialect spoken in Turkey is the REAL Armenian Dialect! The Armenian dialects spoken in ARMENIA, IRAN etc is not the real armenian!
Is the Iranian population of Armenians really 400 000? Considering all who have emigrated since the Iranian revolution. I think it should be somewhere between 100 and 200 thousand left. AraM 15:17, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
The "de-facto"/"officially" formulation was achieved after months of debates and mediation on the Nagorno-Karabakh article. I have synchonized the infobox with the formulation.--TigranTheGreat 17:29, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
Armenia became independent as a result of the break-up of the Russian Empire, not the Ottoman one. Western Armenia has not become independent yet.--TigranTheGreat 23:40, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
Nice try. 1907AbsoluTurk (talk) 03:15, 6 August 2011 (UTC)
Parishan, re , I find no agreement on representing Armenians in {{Infobox Ethnic group}} as a bunch of statues. Especially statues not crafted after life but essentially the monumental counterpart of Batman action figures. This is patently ridiculous. The "image" parameter is not intended for a collection of statues, no matter how "ethnic" they are. If people can agree on a collage of mugshots representing the group in question, that's fine. The alternative is no image at all. --dab (𒁳) 10:37, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
Folks, lets come up with some good collection of 10 famous Armenian people. I made a list please see below. The concern I have is that there is a gap from 393 - to 1817 that is unfilled. Let's try to cover all the historical periods, please bring forward your suggestions.
Jesus H Christ, VartanM, are we being a little bit over-sensitive? mugshot = "photograph of a person's face", ok? Police files don't enter into it, my point was that we cannot use action figures and fancy statues. The statues "are works of art of Armenian people"? What is wrong with you? Are you saying the "image" slot in ethnic group infoboxes is intended to present random works of art somehow attributed to members of the group in question? Anyway, things are looking much better now, thanks to Steelmate. Can we now just get rid of the Tigranes II and Mamikonian "works of art"? I am sure you can find two more images of Armenians drawn after life. dab (𒁳) 16:29, 19 November 2007 (UTC)
Thnaks Dbachmann, I think as image we can certainly use any images of Armenian people, something that identifies the Armenian, it can be a portrait or a statue or any work of art that is depicting face or face & body of the person. Statues are widely used by Greeks f.e. and others. But one aspect is that preferable the images should be coming from the time those people lived. F.e. I think modern statue of Tigran II is inappropriate, would be much better to get ancianet represnetation. I think priorities should be in this order:
Just my 2 cents.... Steelmate (talk) 14:32, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
Add Vartan Mamikonyan and Adranik Ozanyan. I think its BS that we already don't have them up there. Also why is a Turk/Azeri deciding who we should put up in our portraits of famous Armenians? Are you guys catering to him or to us, don't forget the aim of this article. Your turning something that is supposed to be informational into something political. Anyways my suggestions are having more people up there. Armenian athletes, businessmen, inventors, artists (everything that falls within the brackets of culture & music), authors, and doctors & scientists, if you need any suggestions just ASK ME. 76.174.223.63 (talk) 06:37, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
Folks, as much pleasing to the armenian soul those words sound, isn't it a little POV? I checked other nations (Greeks, Egyptions, Russians...) non of them use such a self declamatory rhetoric. I would like to see the article about Armenians to become featured, therefore will vote to exclude any POV rhetoric. What do you think? -- Steelmate (talk) 20:46, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
Also, isn't article about Armenians considered to be about Armenian ethnicity, not a nation? As under an Armenian nation it could be anyone who is citizen of Armenia... (f.e. russian) What do you think? -- Steelmate (talk) 20:50, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
Armenia was the first Christian nation not Greece. Iness92 (talk) 02:00, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
Isn't it a little (may be more then little) POV? Steelmate 20:04, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
in the case of dance, "oldest" is nonsensical too. There is no such thing as "oldest dance". You may discuss claims of the oldest attestation of specific literature on dance. In this, Armenia will find it difficult to compete with the Natya Shastra (likely predating the Gupta period). dab (𒁳) 20:37, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
What was it, and why isn't it mentioned? Funkynusayri 21:11, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
I created the last Armenians collage that included Tigranes the Great, Gregory the Illuminator, St. Mesrob, St. Isaac, Ivan Aivazovsky, Andranik, Tigran Petrosian, Isabel Bayrakdarian, Aram Khachaturian, Charles Aznavour, Viktor Hambardzumyan, and William Saroyan. Unfortunately, it was deleted. Now, however, that I realize how to tag everything, I'm thinking of creating a new collage for this article. Like before, it shall be based on the collages from other ethnicity articles (like the Russians and Georgians, etc.). Based on the discussion above plus the present assortment of small images in the ethnic box, I think that the following individuals should be included:
Row one (left to right):
Row two (left to right):
Row three (left to right):
What do you think? -- Aivazovsky (talk) 22:45, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
I'm also opposed to Kasparov, he's not fully Armenian (half Jewish), doesn't identify himself as an Armenian really and in recent years has been acting like a clown in Russia. We absolutely need someone between the 5th and 19th centuries. First thing that needs to be done is to include someone from Cilician Armenia, dozens of people to chose from. Too many modern people. I like the first four, although it would be nice to have Vartan Mamikonian. I would also prefer Drastamat Kanayan instead of Andranik, but that's not a big deal.-- Ευπάτωρ Talk!! 18:04, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
Armenians list is not good and it is wrong, because St. Gregory the Illuminator is not Armenian man he is a Parthian man please looking this http://hy.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D5%80%D5%A1%D5%B5%D5%A5%D6%80 I can translate this humans name into English
Folks, regarding new collage I believe those are principles that we will need to follow, put your username against the solution you vote for:
Name | Gender (M/F) | Period | Notes | Vote |
---|---|---|---|---|
Tigranes the Great | M | 95 BCE–55 BCE | King of Armenia at its greatest extent | Aivazovsky, Steelmate, Eupator, Crzycheetah, VartanM, Fedayee |
St. Gregory the Illuminator | M | 257–330 | Founder and patron saint of the Armenian Apostolic Church | Steelmate, Andranikpasha |
St. Mesrob Mashtots | M | 361/362–440 | Inventor of the Armenian alphabet | Aivazovsky, Crzycheetah, Steelmate, Andranikpasha, VartanM, Fedayee |
St. Vartan Mamikonian | M | 5th century | Armenian military hero, Christian martyr | Eupator, Crzycheetah, Aivazovsky (he covers both a historical period and a military figure plus his contribution to Armenia was more significant than Andranik's), Andranikpasha (Andranik is the National Hero of Armenia, let's not compare), VartanM, Fedayee |
Moses of Chorene | M | 5th century | Writer of the first history of Armenia | Andranikpasha |
Queen Keran of Armenia | F | 13th century | Queen of Cilician Armenia | Steelmate |
Levon V Lusignan of Armenia | M | 1342–1393 | Last king of Cilician Armenia | Eupator (Why him and not another? Because he was the last and he fought really hard to restore the kingdom by trying to create a truce between England and France), Aivazovsky (I agree and we need somebody from Cilicia and the medieval period), VartanM, Steelmate as we really don't have anyone between 5th and 18th centuries otherwise. |
Khachatur Abovyan | M | 1805–1848 | Armenian writer and national public figure who was way ahead of his time. Largely responsible for the spread and refinement of the modern Armenian language. | Eupator |
Raffi | M | 1835–1888 | Famous Armenian writer and patriot | Steelmate
I find it ridiculous that there is no mention whatsoever of the amount of ARMENIANS that reside & live in TURKEY today!! For GOD SAKES there is close too 100,000 ARMENIANS living in Turkey today, especially in ISTANBUL! There are thousands of other ARMENIANS in TURKEY that dont even know that they are ARMENIAN!! The Armenians that live in Turkey today are the actual REAL Armenians believe it or not. The Armenian dialect spoken in Turkey is the REAL Armenian Dialect! The Armenian dialects spoken in ARMENIA, IRAN etc is not the real armenian! |
Ivan Konstantinovich Aivazovsky | M | 1817–1900 | Famous Russian-Armenian painter | Aivazovsky (obviously :)), Eupator, Crzycheetah, Steelmate, VartanM. Fedayee |
Hovhannes Tumanyan | M | 1869–1923 | Famous Armenian writer | Andranikpasha |
General Andranik Toros Ozanian | M | 1865–1927 | 20th century Armenian military hero | Andranikpasha, VartanM, Fedayee |
Shushanik Kurghinian | F | 1876–1927 | Noted Armenian feminist writer | |
Komitas Vardapet | M | 1869–1935 | Founder of modern Armenian classical music | Andranikpasha |
Yeghishe Charents | M | 1897–1937 | Armenian poet and public activist, killed in Stalin's purges | |
Arshile Gorky | M | 1904?–1948 | Armenian-American abstract expressionist painter | |
Garegin Njdeh | M | 1886-1955 | Politician, political thinker, revolutionary and fedayee. Lifelong service to the Armenian cause. | Fedayee, Eupator |
Drastamat Kanayan | M | 1884-1956 | Politician, revolutionary and general. Lifelong service to the Armenian cause. | Fedayee, Eupator |
Aram Khachaturian | M | 1903–1978 | World-renowned Armenian composer | Aivazovsky, Eupator, Crzycheetah, VartanM, Fedayee |
William Saroyan | M | 1908–1981 | Famous Armenian-American writer | Aivazovsky, Steelmate, Eupator, Crzycheetah, VartanM |
Marshal Hovhannes Bagramyan | M | 1897–1982 | World War II Soviet Armenian military hero | Fedayee, Eupator |
Tigran Petrosian | M | 1929–1984 | Former World Chess Champion | Aivazovsky, Eupator, Crzycheetah, VartanM, Fedayee |
Sergei Parajanov | M | 1924–1990 | Soviet Armenian film director | Steelmate |
Silva Kaputikyan | F | 1919–2006 | Prominent Armenian poet, writer, academian and public activist | Andranikpasha, Fedayee |
Charles Aznavour | M | 1924– | World-renowned French-Armenian singer | Aivazovsky, Eupator, Crzycheetah, Steelmate, Andranikpasha, VartanM, Fedayee |
Serj Tankian, System Of A Down | M | 1967– | Armenian-American heavy metal and activist group | Andranikpasha |
Nune Yesayan | F | 1969– | Armenian pop singer | |
Isabel Bayrakdarian | F | 1974– | World-renowned Armenian-Canadian soprano | Aivazovsky, Eupator, VartanM (although she's not too well known), Steelmate |
If we are to have a 2x5 ratio, then we need to remove at least two people from the present collage. -- Aivazovsky (talk) 19:58, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
Just curious but when is the deadline for this vote? -- Aivazovsky (talk) 21:43, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
Folks, looks like we have a unanimous decision regarding technical solution (2x5, html table based collage). Let's now focus on picking our 10 great Armenians. Steelmate (talk) 00:46, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
In addition, odds are we are also going to differ on which pictures are suitable for inclusion!-- Ευπάτωρ Talk!! 17:45, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
Think Saroyan needs to be redone, as it has improportionately big face as compared to other pix. The first Khachaturyan I like better. For Vartan - coin should be the last choice. The bust of Levon looks good to me as well. I like second photo of Isabel more (in red). Steelmate (talk) 12:34, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
Does anyone keep an eye on what is going on in that section now? Steelmate (talk) 18:13, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
Specifically what are you guys' objections to the now deleted genetic relations info? What do you mean the hypothesis of Azeris and Armenians is unreliable? The source given was a peer reviewed scientific study conducted by an Armenian an Azeri among others, it was published in a reputable journal, what more can you expect? We shouldn't be deleting this information solely because we are uncomfortable with what it entails. Also, I don't see what is contradictory about the studies, Ευπάτωρ, please explain. Almost every other ethnic group has a genetics section, so should Armenians.E10ddie (talk) 01:56, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
The list of Armenians in the diaspora doesnt give any figures for Iraq which is well known to have a sizeable population, at least 20,000 in Baghdad alone, overall at least 20,000, maybe upto 60,000 (http://www.ethnologue.com/14/show_language.asp?code=ARM) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.145.125.203 (talk) 00:13, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
Great work on making quality images Aivazonsky! Here we can post our comments:
Image | Comment |
---|---|
Tigranes the Great | I would suggest making head smaller, to be more like all other images, and also his nose touches right border, doesn't look too good. Steelmate (talk) 14:04, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
|
Same suggestion as for Tigranes The Graet, to make it smaller, so we have a consistent sizing and not cut out back of his head. Steelmate (talk) 14:04, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
| |
Looks good to me. Steelmate (talk) 14:06, 25 January 2008 (UTC) | |
Looks good to me. Steelmate (talk) 14:06, 25 January 2008 (UTC) | |
Aram Khachaturian | |
William Saroyan | Please replace the photo Saroyan on this one! It looks more impressive:) |
The only comment I have is the top of his head is cut out, if posible to move image downj, and maybe making it a little (10-15%) smaller? Steelmate (talk) 14:06, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
| |
Isabel Bayrakdarian |
Shouldn't we add the number of Hamshenis to the Armenian population of Turkey? This would bring the total number to something like 470,000. Moreover, I feel that there is a precedent for this, as the Georgians add those georgians in Iran and Turkey, who have been in those countries for centuries and no longer speak Georgian. E10ddie (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 02:05, 20 March 2008 (UTC) Since I haven't heard any opposition, I went ahead and factored into account the number of Hamshens into Turkey's Armenian population. The sourse only gave a total population of Hamshen at 230,000, and so I added the commonly respected number of 70,000 professed Armenians to this. So in actuality, the 300,000 number come from both my new sourse and the traditional sources. Moreover, I feel it is necessary to include Hamshens regardless of how they view themselves, due to the precedent set in the wikipedia pages of other ethnic groups. See Germans, which includes Austrians, who, by no means, consider themselves German, though they are ethnically identical.E10ddie (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 19:35, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
It is not agreed that there are 70,000 Armenians in Turkey, the concensus is anywhere from 40,000 to 70,000.--Moosh88 (talk) 00:29, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
Ok, but wouldn't the upper limit of the acceptable Armenian population in Turkey still be 300,000=70,000+230,000?E10ddie (talk)
The latest CIA Factbook states that Armenia's estimated population is 2.9 million. I think the vast majority of sources have the pop under 3 million and I think we should change the 3.2 million figure accordingly. If I don't see any objections, I'll change it in a few days. E10ddie (talk) 04:31, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
Most numbers of Armenian in the world should be fixed .. for example in Jordan it does not exceed 4,000.. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Joudig (talk • contribs) 20:25, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
What are the issues here that prevent it to be featured? Please list them here! Steelmate (talk) 02:58, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
Please see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Afghan British (contains proposal for deletion of the Israeli British article). Badagnani (talk) 05:01, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
I added a new source that states there are 1 million and half armenians in the US, stating made officially by Barack Obama. Also to mention that the Armeniandiaspora.com source claims 1,400,000 Armenians living in the US. Greetings, --Vitilsky (talk) 15:09, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
There are not 70,000 Armenians in Jordan. I don't think there are even 7,000. The given source is incorrect. TA-ME (talk) 14:11, 1 January 2009 (UTC)
The infobox "lots of little flag icons" clutter is generally difficult to contain, but this was a particularly bad case. The infobox listed 41(!) "significant" populations. I argue there is no way populations smaller than 1% of the total can be considered "significant". And this is stretching the term "significant" -- it would be more sensible to put it at 5%, which would give us a clean list of four populations (Armenia, Russia, US, France) in the infobox, which would actually be a meaningful summary of where Armenians tend to live. Yes, these days people from any nation tend to be found in infinitesimal numbers in each and every country worldwide, this is perfectly unremarkable and hardly a reason to take up significant screen space filled with a colorful presentation of the world's flags at the top of an article. --dab (𒁳) 09:24, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
The Armenian Apostolic Church is not "Monophysite". The primary system Christology it adheres to (along with the Coptic, Syriac, Ethiopian, and Indian churches) is rather Miaphysitism. And while it is certainly correct to refer to the AAC as "Miaphysite", this system of Christology is also shared with other church bodies, and thus winds up being non-distinguishing. It would be better to refer to the AAC as "Oriental Orthodox" or "Non-Chalcedonian". Deusveritasest (talk) 09:03, 28 February 2009 (UTC)
There seems to be an ongoing battle between the total population of Armenians Worldwide. It is currently stating 8 Million, however according to the Source, it is 10 Million. I personally think it should be changed to 10 Million, as it appears to be the most accurate estimate. Opinions Please! Oh, and another thing, the Largest population figures should be changed to the 10 or so Largest Disapora Communties, instead of places like Czech Republic where only 10,000 or so Armenians live (I actually doubt there are even 10,000 in the Czech Republic! (Shakarian141 (talk) 00:21, 3 March 2009 (UTC))
In the Armenian diaspora article the section about the population breakdown per country is just being reviewed mainly being updated with reliable and current sources corresponding Talk page section. As there are also numbers given here, I invite anyone working on this article to watch and support this process.
Greets from Munich, 88.65.43.247 (talk) 09:19, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
I find it RIDICULOUS that there is no mention about the actual REAL Armenians that actaully still live in Present day Turkey today. There is about 75,000-100,000 ARMENIANS in TUrkey today, especially in ISTANBUL. Why On EARTH is this not mentioned on here?? It should be the most important FACT! The Armenians Living in Turkey are the actual "REAL ARMENIANS" speaking the "REAL ARMENIAN". So much ignorance out there and people have no clue that for an ARMENIAN to live in TURKEY is probably harder than an ARMENIAN living in any other COuntry! The Armenians in TURKEY are still a very strong community and carry and follow tradition despite Turkish pressure at times.. I am Armenian from Turkey, BOLSAHYE that is.. and I have lots of Family in Istanbul and I have to say TURKEY is a gorgeous Country and they have perfected so much from textiles, to the most delicious MIDDLE EASTERN Cuisine that being TURKISH Cuisine! I LOVE TURKEY, the country very much because it is soo soo beautiful in soo soo many ways! I go to ISTANBUL at least 1 every 2 yrs & I have the time of my life and never want to LEAVE!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.34.87.132 (talk) 06:03, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
The debate over the status of the Armenian Genocide should probably occur on talk rather than in an edit war. How is it POV to say that the AG is not proven and is rather an opinionated theory? Isn't this simply the truth? Deusveritasest (talk) 00:37, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
The idiots who keep changing the info stating that there are only 8 Million Armenians worldwide are wrong, as according to all sources available there are an estimated 10 million Armenians. Please can we discuss this properly. 82.12.123.187 (talk) 17:47, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
The edit warring between anons has to stop, and IP user 82.12.123.187 has to change his/her style and language (see WP:CIVIL). I have changed the number for Russia to comply with the cited source (which has been there for ages: only the population number in the Infobox was arbitrarily changed from 1.1 to 2 million by anon on 18 February 2009). I have also provided an up-to-date reference for the figure of "about" 1 million Armenians in U.S. and Canada and reconfigured the corresponding footnote. It now remains to go over the numbers for all the countries after U.S., starting with Iran, and check them carefully against the cited sources. It may be necessary to add some countries and delete others as marginal, but every number should be supported by a reliable source. Please respect my sourced research and move on to checking new information. --Zlerman (talk) 05:56, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
It appears the disputes between the number of Armenians has been resolved. Again, these are only estimates, so they vary greatly from 7-12 Million, but the current information is sourced accurately. --Shakarian141 (talk) 20:34, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
It's not significant that we mention "de jure" every place where "Nagorno Karabakh Republic" is mentioned. People interested in details can click on the link and they can see that. It is plain ridiculous to add it everywhere, especially in an already cluttered table! (I'm referring to the population table.) Serouj (talk) 06:21, 18 July 2009 (UTC)
Astourian's paper on the global Armenian population is one of the only academic analysis of this topic. The cited paper on 30,000 Armenians in AZ outside of NKR is plain false. Even the article says, "The Armenians in Azerbaijan are largely concentrated in the break-away region of Nagorno-Karabakh, but there are some smaller Armenian communities scattered throughout Azerbaijan." There are practically no Armenians remaining in AZ who overtly identify as Armenian. What regards those who have Armenian ancestry but don't express it, that is effectively non-Armenian (needless to say difficult to count!). Serouj (talk) 06:26, 18 July 2009 (UTC)
This article puts the number of Armenians in Armenia at 2,500,000 while the article of Armenia itself puts the number at 3,231,900 based on the armstat.am site. This kind of difference is inacceptable for a encyclopedia and a commen figure should be reflected in both articles, so whats the correct number? Neftchi (talk) 10:33, 18 July 2009 (UTC)
The World Bank gives an Armenian population of 2.95 million and another more reliable source, Cia.gov, has this estimate: 2,967,004 (July 2009 est.) Of these, 97.7% are Armenian, here is the link: https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/am.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kkhach (talk • contribs) 10:08, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
This is directed at User:Hovhannesk: Please don't add arbitrary numbers to the Armenian population section unless you reference them and with discussion. Astourian's analysis is the most complete one as it covers the global Armenian population. I'm reverting your additions of arbitrary and uncited numbers. Please discuss. Serouj (talk) 21:06, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
I would like to discuss this more centrally, see here. --dab (𒁳) 07:24, 7 September 2009 (UTC)
{{editsemiprotected}}
On October 4th, of 2009, "ArmenianKing" added an image of a Slavic-looking girl to the Culture section. In addition, the comment to the image states: "An Armenian girl holding a baby, Armenians are Aryan Caucasian people with blonde/red hair with blue/green eyes. Most Armenians have brown/black hair with dark brown/hazel eyes due to the diaspora.[25]" All three (the image, the comment, and its reference) are inapproriate and/or false.
Let me start by saying that the girl on the image does not look as ethnic Armenian at all. Anyone who has seen Armenians and any Slavic peoples, will tell you this. Armenians are generally not blond. If this picture was taken in Armenia, then she must be a Molokan Russian. Molokan Russians who live in Armenia moved there in 19th century and constitute less than 1% of Armenia's population. While they are full citizens of the Republic of Armenia like everyone else living there, passing this picture as an image of an "Armenian" girl is clearly misleading. However, even if the picture was taken in Armenia, a picture of an ethnic Russian living in Armenia does not belong to an article on the Armenian ethnicity.
Second, the claim that Armenians are an "Aryan Caucasian people" again should be removed as it is not even clear what "Aryan" means today. Since the World War 2, this is considered a racially and politically charged term, and no social scientists (linguists, etc) use it for any scientific purpose.
Finally, the reference of the comment leads to the web site http://www.armenianaryans.com/AC/index.php5 which is some discussion board can can't be used as a reference.
Given that the whole thing (the image, comment, and the reference) is a troll post, I suggest to remove the image from the article.
Urchalka2000 (talk) 12:25, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
Already done Notedgrant (talk · contribs) took care of this. Celestra (talk) 16:22, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
according to the article, there are 760.000 Armenians living in USA and 100,000 in Canada but another wiki article (White Genocide) says 385,488 in USA and 40,505 in Canada. These polls are from Census datas and I think census is more reliable. please re-edit that one is wrong. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.42.219.152 (talk) 21:40, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
You are incorrect, both censuses are old. There are currently over 1.2 million Armenians in the United States, check the Armenian American article. Also, the number of Armenians in Armenia is not 2.5 million, it is roughly 99.7% of the countries 3 million, thus 2,910,000. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kkhach (talk • contribs) 10:03, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
Is there some article on Wikipedia that explains why Armenian names (in my admittedly very limited experience) tend to always end with the "ian/yan" sound? Looking at just the political leadership of Armenia and the NKR, we have: Sargsyan, Abrahamyan, Sahakyan, Harutyunyan, Kocharyan, Ter-Pretrossian. Is this suffix in all Armenian names, and does it have any particular meaning? --Golbez (talk) 23:47, 1 May 2010 (UTC)
{{editsemiprotected}}
I wanted to edit the "religion" section for the Armenians since I know that a significant minority is Atheist/Agnostic. You're acceptance for my permission to edit the following page would be very appreciated.
Raptorjeebus (talk) 21:25, 7 June 2010 (UTC)
J. P. Mallory's " In Search of the Indo-Europeans: Language, Archaeology and Myth." book state that there is a general consensus that Armenians like Phrygians migrated to Anatolia from the Balkans. Are there any source for "which originated in the Caucasus and the Armenian Highland"? The Urartu people are older than Proto-Armenians in the Armenian Highland.Kavas (talk) 13:18, 4 September 2010 (UTC)
The source was Thomas Gamkrelidze, I now see it. Perhaps, we should mention Balkan origin theory. Kavas (talk) 13:22, 4 September 2010 (UTC)
I find it ridiculous that there is no mention whatsoever of the amount of ARMENIANS that reside & live in TURKEY today!! For GOD SAKES there is close too 100,000 ARMENIANS living in Turkey today, especially in ISTANBUL! There are thousands of other ARMENIANS in TURKEY that dont even know that they are ARMENIAN!! The Armenians that live in Turkey today are the actual REAL Armenians believe it or not. The Armenian dialect spoken in Turkey is the REAL Armenian Dialect! The Armenian dialects spoken in ARMENIA, IRAN etc is not the real armenian! —Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:{{{1}}}|{{{1}}}]] ([[User talk:{{{1}}}|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/{{{1}}}|contribs]])
less shouting, more WP:RS, please. --dab (𒁳) 09:12, 3 October 2010 (UTC)
This has absolutely no women in it..and some are not even native Armenians, maybe they could be used in articles with Armenians in the diaspora...Armenia81 (talk) 15:52, 10 October 2010 (UTC)
Why no picture of Armen Dzhigarkhanyan? Or Tigran Keosayan? Or Yevgeny Petrosyan? Is there some bias against Russian Armenians going on here? :) --SergeiXXX (talk) 03:31, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
These is no problem with putting a picture of an Armenian living in Russia, or an Armenian born into what was part of Armenia during the USSR teritory. Most people would agree that an Armenian is a person who was born and raised in Armenia with Armenian as thier mother tongue.....everybody else would be considered a descendent of an Armenian therefore not an Armenian but a person of Armenian ancestry. This applies to everybody in the United states for example...having ancestry is one thing compared to actually being born or raised in the country..thats why we aknowledge a diaspora...the first exampe you gave would of been fine though as he was clearly born in the Armenian USSR.Cuba2010 (talk) 10:14, 30 October 2010 (UTC)
I see that there has already been some talk about genetics. Somebody recently added in this muddled paragraph, which I tried editing, but it still seemed kind of random and abrupt...so I deleted it:
"Armenians are classified as Caucasoids, and often have and have white or olive skin. Hair color is mostly dark brown; 58% belongs to this category while black and medium brown account for 18% each. The remaining 6% is almost entirely reddish brown. 73% of ethnic Armenians have brown eyes; which is divided almost evenly between dark brown, light brown, and mixed-brown shades. Mixed and light eyes, mostly green-brown, but also including 2% of pure blue, total 34% in the city of Van and 11% in Kaisarie."
Perhaps somebody can add to the genetics section? I think that that would be interesting and good to expand it.Preservedmoose (talk) 03:58, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
ONE OF pictures states that Van is west of Armenia. If you really do not know where it is, please let us with our OWN conflict with Armenians!!! 85.98.117.193 (talk) 20:04, 16 April 2011 (UTC)
I think it’s time to update the infobox. At first, I don’t know the reason why Hayk Nahapet is in the list – he’s a hero of a legend originally written(not composed) by Movses Khorenaci, writing his name in the infobox is the same like for Greeks to write Heracles or Athena in their one. I don’t understand the logic of including Gagik Carukyan, Serj Sarqsyan, Sirusho… I suggest to enlarge the infobox, make it 5 rows each containing 5 portraits.
1st row:
2nd row:
3rd row:
4th row:
5th row:
Vahan.hovh 17:19, 28 April 2011 (UTC).
Mimar Sinan Muslim Ottoman Turks Not Armenian Please Delete Mimar Sinan —Preceding unsigned comment added by Fraktis (talk • contribs) 05:18, 16 May 2011 (UTC)
Please remove Mimar Sinan. He is an Ottoman Turk and isn't even Armenian culturally. Also, get rid of these pictures and add recent Armenians from 19th-21st century! This is a joke, you must edit the infobox! I don't even know some of these people. Add famous Armenians at least! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.171.238.185 (talk) 23:41, 27 May 2011 (UTC)
Why is it that in the Armenian people pictures section, half of them are just paintings or drawings of Armenians? Why can't we add modern Armenian pictures? I mean, you added someone like Mimar Sinan who isn't even famous or someone who can represent Armenians. There are so many famous Armenians that you left out. Please, it's a disgrace. Look at the page for French,German,Georgian people: They're all mostly modern. Why is Armenian people's picture section so abnormal. Please fix it and add popular Armenian faces. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.171.238.185 (talk) 21:56, 8 July 2011 (UTC)
If you guys actually decide to use this montage instead of the one that is currently up you could/should also add William Saroyan and George Deukmejian.Preservedmoose (talk) 23:15, 6 November 2011 (UTC)
In Poland lived 70 000 Armienian. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.216.105.230 (talk) 10:22, 3 September 2011 (UTC)
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