Loading AI tools
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Daily page views
|
Goranis, higlanders so the title should be done by using the singular form such as German people, not Germans people. Gorani means aldready Gorans, like Goranci. I remind of that there is an other people group named [| Gorani] in Kurdistan. That is why I recommend using the Gorans as in original, like the Goranets (Goran male), Goranka (Goran female). It is also visible that the i in the ends signs Iranians such as Farsî, Kurdî, Afganî etc. Thanks and Regards Anton.aldemir (talk) 22:12, 7 February 2014 (UTC)
It is wrongly stated that Novo Selo is part of Gora and as one who hails from Novo Selo( even that is wrong, the correct name; it's called Novosej) and people of Novosej are albanians and speak only albanian... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.106.109.42 (talk) 13:48, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
Provide source for this statement, please. I have this info from this study: Българите в района на Корча и Мала Преспа (Албания) - съвременна картина, Балканистичен Форум, Issue no.1-3 /2005, ЮГОЗАПАДЕН УНИВЕРСИТЕТ "НЕОФИТ РИЛСКИ" ; in English: Bulgarians in the region of Korcha and Mala Prespa (Albania) nowadays, Balkanistic Forum (1-3/2005), Pashova, Anastasija Nikolaeva; Issue: 1-3/2005, Page Range: 113-130. The info is that there are still old people, who understand Slavic, but the majority are Albanized. Is this right? Jingby (talk) 14:49, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
Actually One of my great grandmothers was from Novosej, and the village is only partially inhabited by Gorani. But We have no problem with Goranis, they consider themself as Albanian and intermarry a lot with other Albanians (I speaj here only for Albania's Gorani). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.136.97.119 (talk) 17:21, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
So, who are Gorani, Macedonians or Serbs? Kosovo and Metohia is not province of Albania. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.77.151.83 (talk • contribs) 17:53, 22 March 2004 (UTC)
Copied from de:Gorani via Babelfish:
Gorani is a Kurdish dialect and province Kermanschah and in the Hewraman mountains of a small group is spoken. This dialect is called sometimes also Hewrami and stands to Zazaki (D?m?li) very near. In this dialect there are the oldest literary documents of the Kurdish language. Many speakers of this dialect belong to the religious grouping Ehl e chop. There are very many religious documents in this dialect is written. Gorani became up to 19. Century used by many Kurds in Iran and Iraq more and more of the Sorani dialect displaces however later. Sorani became supposed by the sunnitischen influences more importantly and thus became this dialect also more strongly. One can see it also completely clear today that Gorani dialect predominantly from Ehl e chop Kurds spoken wird.[bearbeiten ] Writing works The most important writing works are: 874-Seitige Shîrîn u Xusrew from the year 1975 of Xanay Qûbadi (lived 1700-1759). It was published in Bagdad. 789-Seitiger Diwan in 19. Century of the poet Feqe Qadiri Hemewend. The Koran in Gorani in 19. Century of Haci Nuri Eli Ilahi (Nuri Eli Shah). —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nikola Smolenski (talk • contribs) 06:37, 12 July 2004 (UTC)
What is more "neutral" in that version? I was not even aware of a debate or controversy, yet! Please do not simply revert but use the talk page if you find fault. Refdoc 22:29, 29 Jul 2004 (UTC)
I know , Gora means 'montain' in Slavic languages. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.254.243.180 (talk • contribs) 01:03, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
It should have started by 16th century The article states that these people converted to islam in the late 18th century. I think it's a bit late, the Ottoman Empire was already weak at that time. They conveted more probably during the 16th and 17th centuries.--Revas 23:53, 20 July 2005 (UTC)
This is probably why a pro-Bulgarian movement has been organized. In the economic and political desperation in Kosovo or among the Kosovo refugees no one should blame them. Well, Serbia is right if it's not happy about the Gorani becoming Bulgarian. In my opinion however, the Gorani in Kosovo, Serbia and FYROM will not gain any efficient support from Bulgaria. In spite of the legends told in Serbia, Bosnia and FYROM, I doubt that the Bulgarian authorities are so easily fooled. The regime of granting passports is tightening each time and the period of waiting for a 'yes' or 'no' now is over three years even for the Bulgarians from Caribrod and Bosilegrad, who are officially recognized by the Serbian state. Besides, Bulgaria has its own Muslims and needs no more of them. This is why the 'Return to Bulgaria' project is active in Ukraine, Moldova and among the Orthodox Macedonians but not in Kosovo, among the Macedonian Torbeši or the Pomaks of Northern Greece.
These disputes of who the Gorani are and who has the right on them are in vain and useless. It doesn't matter anymore, especially after 1999, when they fled Kosovo for good. Their overall number is insignificant and their future will depend on their individual choice. As far as I know, most Gorani who fled Kosovo have gone to Serbia proper. In two generations they will assimilate and become Serbs. If they go to FYROM: "Macedonians" or Albanians. If some among them convince the Bulgarian authorities and obtain Bulgarian passports: fine, they will go to Bulgaria or (most likely) will try Germany or Switzerland and become confectioners or café owners, until they obtain German or Swiss citizenship. The fourth group will go to Bosnia and become part of the new Bosniak nation (isn't it strange, with so many nations in such a small country (former SFRY), at least three of them never heard of before 1945!).
And a remark to the article: why doesn't it say anything about the Gorani in Albania? It is there where the "we are Bulgarians" voices are heard most often and listened to in Sofia.
85.11.148.71 08:28, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
I thought that Gorans are of Serbian origin... --HolyRomanEmperor 14:21, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
Yes - AFIAC, I barely understood a neighbour of mine (who sells popcorns for living, sadly, ever since he abandoned Kosovo) when I met him for the first time. Call me mad, but I could swear he spoke Albanian when I heard him for the first time! :) It is he who told me that "their" ancestors joined arms with the Armies of Free Balkan Peoples in 1912 by the call of King Peter and that they've lived on Kosovo, tilling the fields ever since. He however, has a rather bad stereotypic view of Albanians. --HolyRomanEmperor 20:45, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
RMK1, here is not a local nationalistic club. Do not revert referenced text. If you have another neutral sourses provide tehem. Your POV is irrelevant for Wikipedia. Thank you. 05:24, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
Wait a minute - "Orthodox Slavs" in Serbia that were adherents of the Serbian Orthodox Church - what prevents us from writing "Serbs"? --PaxEquilibrium 20:42, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
There - they celebrate slava (and all Gorans' slava is Saint George's Day). Does that clarify a little? --PaxEquilibrium 21:46, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
this gives a short history of Gora and the GOrans starting from Byzantine times. --PaxEquilibrium 22:01, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
Undoubtfully best is something written by Gorans themselves. --PaxEquilibrium 22:22, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
According to Harun Hassani from his book "The Goranies are the islamized slaveno-serbian population". --PaxEquilibrium 22:29, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
I've added info about the slava. Is this all enough, Duja, to put that they're of Serb origin into the article? --PaxEquilibrium 10:46, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
To Jingby> There seem to be some confusion, you are talking about a different Novo Selo as there are quite a few in Albania. The one we are talking about is adjacent to Gora region in albanian side, District of Kukes. Actually is called NOVOSEJ not to be mistaken with slavic Novo Selo but is called so(Novo Selo) by gorani people. I can provide evidence, but it will be in Albanian and do not know if that's of any use to you. None of the people of Novosej speaks Nashinski ( apart from gorani girls who have married in Novosej) and there isn't any clue or sign to suggest this language has been spoken. Having read a lot of comments, actually it springs to my mind that some 20-25 years ago i have heard old people calling gorani of Shishtavec bulgareci and i am sure i have heard the word shopi, which to me it makes more sense to say some gorani have originated from Bulgaria. In the mean time, if i find any source in english will post it at the first possibility. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.106.109.41 (talk) 16:57, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
Slavic Torlaks live also in North-western Bulgaria in and around the towns of Chiprovtsi, Archar, Lom and Godech. They identify themselves as Bulgarians and are Eastern Orthodox Christians by religion. They are called also Zadgorski Shopi (Shopi being the peasants from the surroundings of Bulgarian capital Sofia and 'Zadgorski' meaning 'from the other side of the mountain'. Sofia and the Torlak region are divided by the western slopes of the Stara Planina mountain). So, if the Gorani are Torlaks too, they are maybe closely related to Bulgarians?
There are Christian Slavs in Eastern Albania (nearly 50 000 in Golo Brdo) who speak for themselves as for "Nashintsi" and identify themselves as Bulgarians. As the Gorani also use a Slavic dialect named "Nashinski", it is possible that some claim for Bulgarian ethnic identity isn't false. Bulgarian anthropologists insist that some Slavic dialects from western Bulgaria, eastern Serbia, Kosovo, Albania and Gora are transitory and not purely Serbian or Bulgarian.
It is a matter of discussion among Bulgarian intellectuals about what should be the position of Bulgaria towards the Gorani. The government doesn't demonstrate any concern for this small group of Muslim Slavs, though.
A certain number of Gorani people from Prizren have already declared themselves Bulgarians and have asked the support of Bugaria for their cause which they define as cantonal autonomy within the newly declared Republic of Kosovo.
Manol Glishev,
Sofia, Bulgaria
01:48, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
You know, people, the talk page is supposed to be used for resolving edit disputes, and talking in the edit summaries during an edit war is not quite polite wqa. That being said, I agree with Noah that the source only mentions one isolated attack, and does not attribute it to Albanians. The article also contains several questionable statements about Serbization/Albanization of surnames (Serbization in Belgrade is mentioned). While, personally, I do have an impression that Gorani-Albanian relations are far from perfect, better sources are indeed required to back that up or dismiss it. Duja 20:48, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
Does anybody know whos origin have Gorani? ManiaC 15:40, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
I have deleted the link to the german page, because it refered to the gorani language in India. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gast.zarathustra (talk • contribs) 09:25, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
...none of them were adopted... and only "Serbian nationalists think they are Serbs" is kept in the article. I suppose Gorani are Serbian nationalists then. ;( --PaxEquilibrium 18:32, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
I know , Gora means 'montain' in Slavic languages. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.254.243.180 (talk • contribs) 01:02, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
"They are most known for their traditional celebrations of their slava, Saint George's Day (Djurdjevdan)."
What??? I thought they were Muslims... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.21.209.155 (talk • contribs) 17:32, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
I thought Duja will expand the article but it seems either he forgot or no one will. ;( --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 22:55, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
Reasons of the edit:
Sercankabakci (talk) 19:13, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
2008.06: Could we please have a review of the article, to reflect the changed status of Kosova/Kosovo since 2008.02? It would itself need to be reviewed carefully for neutrality, both in the language used and in the politics represented, due to the current diplomatic delicacies throughout this region, as evidenced above. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Protozoon (talk • contribs) 09:02, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
The intro is so POV and unsourced. Full of historical errors. It blatantly aims to push the view that Gorani are some magical Illyrian people that resisted the evil slavs and kept their customs, yet nonethelss adopted Slavic language and enjoyed good status in Slavic civilisation. And DNA shows they are of Albanian origin . Please - show me the evidence, show me these supposed DNA studies. Otherwise this artilce is a joke. Even Gorani themselves evoke a Slavic origin, but thuis is brushed off. What are they - in amnesia ? Gorani is a Slavic word after all. Whats more, the writer even suggests that the Bosniaks being Slavs is a unbeleiveable theory is even more laughable.
But the biggest joke of all is how the writer states that it was their Islamic religion which helped them resist the oppression of evil Serbs and Bulgarian back in the 12th century - the clueless writer clearly does not know that there was no Islam in Europe until the 15th century when the Turks came. Nor did the Bulgarian occupation of Kosovo last for "many centuries"- it was only from 850 till 1014. hardly long enough for Gorani to adopt Slavic tongue. Most of the time it was under Greek rule. Clearly they speak Slavic becuase they were Slavs to begin with. They then converted to Islam when the Turks came, and adopted a mixed Islamic-Slavic culture. The fact that the still recognise Christian holidays and saints is nothing unique to Albanians, but was practices by many newly-Islamicized balkan people: a form of crypto - Christianity.
Hxseek (talk) 13:46, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
HXseek,
You indicate that Islam, or Muslims, didn't arrive in Europe prior to the 15th century. Perhaps you need to re-read a bit of history outside those tedious volume sponsored by Beograd University. Muslims, as is quite common knowledge, occupied and built wonderful cities in Spain during the golden era of Islamic rule (the period of this rule, not specific to Europe, extending from the 8th to 13 centuries, basically up to ibn Khaldun).
Also, your extrapolations on the Goran vis-a-vis their ethnic origin seems equally as contrived as the POV intro you are deconstructing! Along with reducing, distorting, and/or ommitting historical fact, you are content to trade in tired orientalist platitudes of Muslim hordes invading the heartland of Christendom which signals an obvious prejudice via-a-vis Islam and Muslims. The irony is delicious. Serb and Bulgarian invasions into Goran and Albanian-ruled areas continued well into the 18th century, and into 19th and 20th centuries (i.e. Bosnia and Kosova!). The fact that the Goran and Albanians maintained a strong and vibrant Islamic culture seems to escape the kind of reductive and ideologically-driven analysis you are offering. That the Goran are denoted with a Slavic term does not sine qua non allude to their Serbian pedigree. Albania is not a name which Albanians use to denote one another, nor even their country. So, because it was coined by the Normans or Franks, then Albanians really are Norman or Frank?!
Please, do not make alterations to current national identities (i.e. Kosova and its flag), it is childish and does no service to your ancestors who, in the 6th and 7th centuries, were late arrivals to the region though permitted to settle by the locals (i.e. Goran and Albanians, i.e. Illyrians).
Ciao,
Januzi (in Serbia Junuzovic!) ahaha —Preceding unsigned comment added by Januzi (talk • contribs) 17:44, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
Hxseek (talk) 01:35, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
We are not talking about Spain, we are talking about the emergence of Islam in Europe (as Christianity emerged in Europe several centuries prior - Christianity came from the east, too). And by way of this emergence, which in itself was a massive cultural and political thrush of fresh air and interjection of fresh ideas into "dark ages" and "medieval" Europe (which arguably did much to later prompt it into its ballyhooed "enlightenment" and associated periods, the contact with Islam and the Muslim empires of the east and south (i.e. Africa) were long ago mingling with the people of the Balkans. There are Syrian families in Albania whose ancestors extend back some 1200 years, and the interchange of Albanians into the "middle east" as traders, merchants and so forth had a very long tradition, however lacking the literary notation you correctly mention. My point is not to debate a priori legitimacy in the Balkans, nor the supposed purity of tribes and races though there seems to be substantial arguments in favor of this in northern Albania among particular tribes. The simple fact is that Albanians have always made use of the dominant languages of the day, while maintaining a steadfast adherence to their own ancient one. This is not unique to Albanians by any means. And so for the tribe labeled the Goran to speak Nasinske (itself a heady mix of Slavic, Albanian, Turkish, Arabic, Romanian and additional dialects - some Goran even note the inclusion of Farsi vocabulary) and this alone be used to justify their historical "Slavic" pedigree is about as cogent an argument as saying a Californian of European stock is actually Mexican, because he/she speaks Spanish! Anyway, agreed that the question is not an easy one, particularly in the case of Albania with the need for onamastic word juggling to divine origins, though Hoxha was not alone in his desire to "imagine an historical Albanian community, as the Slavs emanating from Russia outwards are traded in the eminently mythical and rhetorical notions of a pan-Slavic identity (this continues today, obviously, with Karadzic and so forth). Dobor dan... ;) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Januzi (talk • contribs) 02:01, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
Please, dear macedonist RMK1, provide reliable refferences that this people are predominantly ethnic Macedonians in Albania, Kosovo and RoM. Thank you. Jingby (talk) 06:13, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
Note: In Kosovo left now around 10,000 Gorani, but 13,000 of them are Macedonians!!! Jingby (talk) 19:24, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
Please read the article Exonym and endonym. This is something like the case with the autonym Macedonians and the exonyms Macedonian Slavs and Slavomacedonians. Jingby (talk) 12:37, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
This is a fact. It is described as the only exonym of this people by several anthropological researches. This is all. Jingby (talk) 08:54, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
Jesus: we're all the same bloody people ! Serbs, Gorani, Macedonians, Bulgarians Slovenski Volk (talk) 11:13, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
This article is seriously biased. Regardless of the fact most Goranis consider their native language Serbian, or at least prefer to learn Serbian as the "literal language" if not folk, the table identifies Našinski with Bulgarian. That is Bulgarian-biased.
The entire article seems as if written by Bulgarians. Why aren't some real facts included? E.g. Reuters: Muslim Serbs in Kosovo mull local polls with trepidation, Muslim Serbs in Kosovo mulllocal polls with trepidation Community fears voting in elections may mean losing aid from Belgrade, 14 November 2009 regarding the last local elections in Kosovo. The Goranis organize folk schools in houses where they teach their children Serbian, refusing to teach them Albanian. In one public school Bosnian is even imposed as the language, which the Goranis reject.
Since -^ Kosovo is the subject of a territorial dispute between the Republic of Serbia and the self-proclaimed Republic of Kosovo. It declared independence on 17 February 2008, while Serbia claims it as part of its own sovereign territory. Its independence is recognized by 75 UN member states - and according to other examples I am reverting this edits to a stable version of the article. Since this is a controversial subject I don`t want to "step on anybody`s toes" :) but I believe this is the established version of the article(according to other examples I saw). If it is not the case, please inform me so I could know in the future. Edit summaries are in Serbian, which is understandable by me, but not to everybody, this is English wiki and the English language has precedence over any other. Greetings. Adrian (talk) 06:54, 16 April 2011 (UTC)
What was the reason to remove the above two statements from the text of the article?--Antidiskriminator (talk) 13:57, 26 May 2013 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 3 external links on Gorani people. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 07:49, 21 October 2017 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Gorani people. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 03:58, 9 December 2017 (UTC)
User:Andrejsrbrus17, please explain your иеъехш edits here. Why did you delete sourced content together with the sources, without any explanation. What is your aim? Thank you. Jingiby (talk) 11:46, 9 September 2018 (UTC)
Gorani and Nasinci are not the same group of people. While Nasinci may have chosen to identify under that name for the census, we are different to the Gorani people.
As a Nasinec (of Nasinci decent), we speak, as mentioned Nasinksi. This is not identical to Gorani and does vary as do the other slavic languages. We follow the Islamic faith and the majority of us reside in the villages East of Prizren, spanning from Jabllanice to Gornje Selo. We do also have a population in Ljubizda and Grncare, though Novo Selo is Albanian. 1.157.242.193 (talk) 13:35, 7 October 2022 (UTC)
Please I ask you not to take this down! I have seen some mistakes! I tried to fix them all! First the Gorani are Muslim Croats! They lived there since the 18th century and identified as Croats! Croats also are genetically close to them 78.0.55.150 (talk) 19:43, 4 August 2023 (UTC)
User talk:JohnWill93, please explain your edits here. Why did you delete sourced content together with the sources, without reasonable explanation. What is your aim? Thank you. Jingiby (talk) 12:24, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
Seamless Wikipedia browsing. On steroids.
Every time you click a link to Wikipedia, Wiktionary or Wikiquote in your browser's search results, it will show the modern Wikiwand interface.
Wikiwand extension is a five stars, simple, with minimum permission required to keep your browsing private, safe and transparent.