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A problematic issue in the definition of "Jewish fundamentalism" is that we tend to either approach it from the point of view of extreme (or super-dogmatic) religious beliefs, or from the point of view of extreme political beliefs, and from the outside it looks like these are different phenomena. However, I believe it is true that most of the people we would agree to call "Jewish fundamentalists" do not distinguish between the religious and the political. Actually they see it as the same thing, and maybe that is one of their distinguishing characteristics. Another comment about the article is that belief in "Greater Israel" is not really a defining belief of the group even though it is a frequent belief amongst them. I think that a more universal set of beliefs concerns the overall position of Jews vis-a-vis Arabs (or gentiles in general) in relation to Israel. The idea that only Jews have a legitimate role in government decision making is common example of this, but there are many. Usually these "political" beliefs are supported by "religious" argument, which is an example of what I said earlier. --zero 10:06, 3 Sep 2003 (UTC)
I find it a bit disheartening that so many Wikipedia articles about Jewish issues degenerate into discussion that has as much to do with the personalities involved as the issues. Hopefully, all would agree that this article needs to be reworked at least a bit. So, it might be best if we moved to suggestions as to how to improve it:
Hopefully this should inspire responses as to how to change the actual article (as opposed to the world at large!). Frikle 05:55, 21 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Dovi, great recent changes. RK 14:32, Jul 23, 2004 (UTC)
The first part of this article makes me rather uncomfortable! I mean, after all, religious "fundamentalism" these days is generally identified with the islamic kind that involves killing and blowing things up for the cause! I don't see anything remotely threataning in the description of orthodox judaism! As noted above, orthodox judaism is essentially a religious movement, not a political one (though there are orthodox jewish political parties in israel). In fact, even in the religious sense, calling orthodox judaism "fundamentalist" is disputable. Some things are indeed set in stone, but others are indeed changeable, as the article points out.
"True" jewish fundamentalism (of the kind that might be considered akin to the islamic brand) would be better represented by extremist elements of the settler movement, or the Kach movement (there's a link to it, but no mention in the article!) or individuals such as Yigal Amir, who assasinated israeli prime minister Yitzchak Rabin.
What do others think? I'd love to hear
I've read that one of the rabbi's of the Gush Emunim said it was not immoral to kill an Arab. This is an example of violent fundamentalism. here are some links http://www.geocities.com/alabasters_archive/gush_underground.html and http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Zionism/gush.htmlAmirman 17:06, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
. It's just a balancing act to aid in a tu quoque argument for Islamic Fundamentalism or Christian Fundamentalism, which are real, are political movements, and are actually dangerous.
Wikipedia is supposed to be an encyclopedia about things that exist, not a soap box for every whackjob anti-semitic to propagate their bizarre ideas.
"Original Research" - give me a break. If I wrote an article on how to catch snipes based on personal research it would be taken down in five seconds. Delete this.--66.211.252.114 13:08, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
The article is confused. First it has no sources, then it seems to define all Orthodoxy as fundementalist, lumps it all in together, and blames the settlement movement on fundementalism. It's confusing because most religious Jews would regard heradim us fundementalist, and if you ask a settler why he's not heradi he'd likely answer, "I'm not that religious;" with settlers being labeled, "Modernim" (Modern) by the heradim. ALso the settler movement is dominated by Modern Orthodoxy, which many heradi do not regard as orthodox at all. It could just be that the word "Fundementalism" cannot be used to describe any movement in Judaism in a meaningful way, and one will be forced to break the artificial label Orthodox down into more meaningful and specific fragments. Lastly, other than having violent ideology, Settlers are in no other way fundementalist. They usually have a very relaxed attitude towards halakhah, certainly don't interpret texts in a literal way more than other orthodox, their whole movement is only possible because they disregard portions of Kesubos and Eicha Rabbah as no longer applicable or completely allegorical to the point of meaninglessness, and stories like the Creation they more regard as metephorical ala Aish Hatorah or Aryeh Kaplan. When they shop for clothes they ask each other, "I don't look too frummy (religious) in this skirt , do I?" 82.81.53.232 21:47, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
Not All orthodox jews are fundamentalists just as not all settlers are. The two groups which can be categorized as fundamentalists are Chabad and Shas, those two groups are those that try hard to preach to israeli secular sociey "to return" to the origin and to become religios "again". Oren neu dag 13:29, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
I'm doing POV tag cleanup. Whenever an POV tag is placed, it is necessary to also post a message in the discussion section stating clearly why it is thought the article does not comply with POV guidelines, and suggestions for how to improve it. This permits discussion and consensus among editors. This is a drive-by tag, which is discouraged in WP, and it shall be removed. Future tags should have discussion posted as to why the tag was placed, and how the topic might be improved. Better yet, edit the topic yourself with the improvements. This statement is not a judgement of content, it is only a cleanup of frivolously and/or arbitrarily placed tags. No discussion, no tag.Jjdon (talk) 19:22, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
AfD added. This article was tagged as being without any references a year ago. -Lisa (talk) 16:00, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
That's enough sources to put in some discussion and definition of the term. User:alatari on IP: 97.85.185.160 (talk) 11:24, 5 December 2009 (UTC)
Building a list of sources above. Alatari (talk) 01:18, 8 December 2009 (UTC)
That was me. I didn't have my random 16 character PW with me while on another's 'puter. ::sigh:: yes it looks like some work. Is any of the original text usable? Alatari (talk) 07:29, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
I'll read over the introductions/thesis statements of the sources and see if I can get a NPOV by combining their views. I'll need a RS arguing there is no such thing as Jewish fundamentalism also. Alatari (talk) 00:45, 8 December 2009 (UTC)
Someone from the 93.143 range thought it was necessary to expand the article with what is essentially a heap of original research and possibly WP:SYNTH. I don't think completely unsourced content should be allowed to stand in a controversial topic like this. JFW | T@lk 21:36, 18 March 2010 (UTC)
Yes, and controversial topics need tight sourcing unless you want them to be endlessly challenged. I don't think you should seek motives from editors beyond stated concerns about your contributions. Please address my concerns rather than just inserting the same stuff again. I could have the article locked if you continue to add unsourced theories that appear to be your own work rather than accepted knowledge. JFW | T@lk 22:37, 20 March 2010 (UTC)
Please don't just insert links from out of nowhere and read Wikipedia:External links. --Shuki (talk) 21:55, 21 March 2010 (UTC)
What is going on here? Can editors please stop blanking this page and removing sourced material because it doesn't suit their agenda? Factsontheground (talk) 02:29, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
I see that the current stubbish text refers only to ultra-Orthodox groupings. But if one bases the definition of fundamentalism on the original meaning of believing that the bible is literally the word of God, then it is much more mainstream. The Louis Jacobs affair concerned his advocating the position that the Torah was divinely inspired rather than the literal word of God. Jacobs was was prevented from becoming head of Jews' College and then also prevented from resuming his position as the rabbi of a congregation within the United Synagogue. Even after Jacobs had retired from his position within the Masorti movement, he was prevented from being called up in a US service the day before his granddaughter's wedding because the US Beth Din considered that he would perjure himself when sying the blessing referring to God as having given us the Torah. This last incident took place under the stewardship of the current Chief Rabbi, so isn't ancient history. Islamic fundamentalism does specifically discuss how all moslem congregations are fundamentalist in this sense and I think a similar discussion regarding the literal fundamentalism of orthodox Judaism is appropriate here. Indeed, looking at some material in the other fundamentalism articles even Jacobs might qualify as fundamentalist for his more limited belief that the Torah is divinely inspired.--Peter cohen (talk) 12:39, 22 August 2010 (UTC)
FYI, I added the tag for the Wikipedia:WikiProject Conservatism because that project includes religious conservatism, such as Fundamentalism. Will Beback talk 08:46, 17 December 2011 (UTC)
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Should this article become a redirect to Haredi Judaism? Editor2020 (talk) 02:16, 16 July 2021 (UTC)
Hi everyone,
I thought I should explain some edits I made. This article needed some restructuring, both due to the incorrect discussion of biblical literalism and some confusion about religious zionism versus haredi judaism. I pretty much kept all of the content, just provided better organization and context.
Note that Lustick, the reference provided for biblical literalism, does not mention literalism even once. Furthermore, he clearly states that he's using a definition of fundamentalism for a specific purpose in his essay, not as a universal definition of fundamentalism.
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