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Luminiferous aether was one of the Natural sciences good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake. | |||||||||||||
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Current status: Delisted good article |
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I recently discovered that Lorentz and Eddington had roughly similar ideas as Einstein about the ether. And the list is much longer than those two. Who claims that they were not part of the scientific community?? Harald88 (talk) 18:16, 5 February 2011 (UTC)
A series of negative first-order experiments (19th century) are now included. Also the order of some sections, the wording in the introduction etc., have been changed.--D.H (talk) 16:57, 4 May 2011 (UTC)
I have published 4 papers on the luminiferous aether which can be found in the General Science Journal here:
http://www.wbabin.net/files/4470_lue.pdf http://www.wbabin.net/files/4467_lue1.pdf http://www.wbabin.net/files/4468_lue2.pdf http://www.wbabin.net/files/4469_lue3.pdf
I show that the Michelson Morley experiment makes assumptions that are not valid and a proper understanding of the luminiferous aether and all its properties yields solutions to all of the challenges we currently face with quantum mechanics and general relativity. Using a classical approach, a new model is devised. It also make the likelihood of a Big Bang implausible since the universe is probably not expanding. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Peterlue (talk • contribs) 01:20, 26 July 2011 (UTC)
I thought the stars were burning not reproducing, likewise when a star explodes depending on it's size, that's a shitload of anarchy and chaos, if a supernova. galaxy clusters and astroid fields, but does radiation (that i think is really code for dark matter) have an luminescient gravity. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.230.193.101 (talk) 22:18, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: article not moved. There has been no comments on the discussion for 11 days now, so I think it's safe to assume there's nothing else people wish to add to the discussion. There is clearly no consensus to move the article, so it stays at the current name. fish&karate 13:35, 26 October 2011 (UTC)
Luminiferous aether → Luminiferous ether – Apparently, the spelling with the A is way rarer. ― A. di M.plédréachtaí 16:26, 7 October 2011 (UTC)
"Luminiferous aether" is the spelling used for most of the articles on the topic because it was the commonest spelling at the time most of the articles were written. There are not enough modern articles on the topic to make "luminiferous aether" or "luminiferous ether" a common spelling in modern times. The majority of articles were written pre-1950 which doesn't show up on that graph. -- Derek Ross | Talk 04:59, 8 October 2011 (UTC)
@Derek Ross (et al.) You write: “"Luminiferous aether" is the spelling used for most of the articles on the topic because it was the commonest spelling at the time most of the articles were written.” That's not true in several ways. First off, not all of the articles use the spelling "aether", but let's focus on this one first. I'm not sure when you're suggesting this article was written (perhaps it was based on Britannica?). "Luminiferous ether" has been the more popular spelling for centuries. (It's not clear when it wasn't, if ever). Nothing has changed recently, and that's clearly reflected in the sources of this article.
You seem to be laboring under the same mistaken belief as Noetica regarding WP:TITLE, which says nothing whatsoever about failing to consider all but the most recent WP:RS, if any: “There are not enough modern articles on the topic to make "luminiferous aether" or "luminiferous ether" a common spelling in modern times. The majority of articles were written pre-1950 which doesn't show up on that graph.” Perhaps you won't mind taking a moment to review the graphs? You seem to have mistaken 1500 for 1950.
There seems to be no need to discuss the original contributors over a minor spelling issue. As you've mentioned WP:COMMONNAME (which also says nothing about considering only the most recent RS, if any), as opposed to WP:TITLE, hopefully you'd like to discuss the questions in WP:CRITERIA at some point? Regarding the comments about a possible precision issue: neither the ethers, nor the “omnipresent, completely passive-medium for the propagation of magnetic waves” (ethernet) are luminiferous. There are no precision or disambiguation issues because there's been a luminiferous ether redirect to this article since 2003. Those redirects have tripled over the last 12 months:
month | % | redirects | (article total) |
---|---|---|---|
2010-09 | 06% | 678 | 12231 |
2010-10 | 06% | 798 | 13163 |
2010-11 | 06% | 801 | 14566 |
2010-12 | 06% | 786 | 12269 |
2011-01 | 06% | 779 | 14026 |
2011-02 | 07% | 709 | 10397 |
2011-03 | 08% | 803 | 10659 |
2011-04 | 07% | 722 | 9777 |
2011-05 | 09% | 880 | 10090 |
2011-06 | 08% | 686 | 9005 |
2011-07 | 10% | 838 | 8748 |
2011-08 | 14% | 1173 | 8164 |
2011-09 | 18% | 1480 | 8406 |
Thank you for refactoring the discussion. I hope it helps to clarify that a number of respondents did not consider these errors and issues at the time of their WP:VOTE.—Machine Elf 1735 10:33, 11 October 2011 (UTC)
The name 'Aether' was applied to this liquid by August Siegmund Frobenius, F.R.S., in 1730.
I'm quite happy to admit that the graphs prove me wrong on the face of it. But since I don't know how accurate the graphs may be, it's difficult for me to know how much faith to place in them. The stepwise nature of the curves at some points does seem to indicate that very few examples of either spelling were found in any year and thus that we are talking about two common spellings of an uncommon word. In any case I still think that ether has a distinctive smell whereas aether doesn't. -- Derek Ross | Talk 20:26, 11 October 2011 (UTC)
The spelling æther is still not uncommon in senses 1–3, and occasionally occurs in sense 5. In the chemical sense 6 ether is the only form recognized by good authorities.
Good God, what I've done... I feel so sorry for the admin who'll be adjudicating this. (No, this is not a withdrawal of the move request.) ― A. di M.plédréachtaí 00:57, 14 October 2011 (UTC)
Perhaps it would help to clarify for the closing admin if I respond to Noetica (who actually supports the move). Noetica, if I'm reading you correctly, you don't believe that the WP:TITLE policy provides the definitive guide on “failing to consider all but the most recent WP:RS”. Obviously, I didn't claim I was quoting you, but you do believe that something provides guidance “to that effect”. I'll admit, it was a mistake to assume, in good faith, that you actually believed it was somehow relevant. Hopefully, I won't make any more mistakes like that, but it would help if you try to limit yourself to what's relevant. Thanks.
Anyway, you ask me to note WP:TITLE §WP:TITLECHANGES, which is about controversial name changes. Drama isn't controversy, but here's the full paragraph without the added emphasis:
As I recall, you “always” use the same date filter, (roughly the last “twenty years”, I take it), but you don't think your one-size-fits-all approach is arbitrary in this case, even though it excludes all but 6 of this article's sources, (those 6 all use "ether", btw).
Noetica, you aggressively pushed your ideas about Google when you should have been courteously skeptical. Setting aside the date issue, for the moment, your method truncated the results making the ratio appear closer to 1:1 than it genuinely is. Your insistence on including "luminiferous æther" as equivalent to "luminiferous aether" further skewed your results. Finally, your insistence on an explicit English filter was irrelevant because anyone without an automatic English filter would have received virtually identical results when searching on the English words "luminiferous aether" and "luminiferous ether". I'm sorry to inform you that the one thing you got right in your rude initial post was “RMs need accurate evidence”. The remainder failed to provide that.
Although both spellings are English, it's interesting that you didn't choose the passage from WP:ENGLISH which actually would seem to lend support to your WP:RS expiry date… although your “thereabouts” are 5 years less than S-PMA's 25, resulting in a whopping 91 year difference from the non-relative 1900 date that appeared prior to S-PMA's June 22 revision of the guideline:
In general, the sources in the article, a Google book search of books published since 1990, and a selection of other encyclopaedias should all be examples of reliable sources; if all three of them use a term, then that is fairly conclusive. If one of those three diverges from agreement then more investigation will be needed. If there is no consensus in the sources, either form will normally be acceptable as a title. | → | In general, the sources in the article, a Google book search of books published in the last quarter-century or thereabouts, and a selection of other encyclopaedias, should all be examples of reliable sources; if all three of them use a term, then that is fairly conclusive. If one of those three diverges from agreement then more investigation will be needed. If there is no consensus in the sources, either form will normally be acceptable as a title. |
Had the question at hand been about foreign languages, foreign letters, diacritics or anything apropos of WP:ENGLISH, I suppose I would have been laboring under a mistaken belief myself. Apart from the counter-factual, I'm to understand that you've taken offense at such a suggestion. It's a shame you can't admit to a mistake, I had actually refrained from pointing out most of them.
As you're aware, relevant policy and guidelines say nothing whatsoever about “failing to consider all but the most recent WP:RS”. We are not establishing English convention (“individuation” ?) for an athlete's name, some obscure foreign place name, etc. What is “patently clear” is that you, and only you, repeatedly bring up "æther", to which your fragment from the OED is explicitly referring, and about which your second vague reference to scripture speaks also. WP:ENGLISH §WP:DIACRITICS is about sqiggles and funny letters like "æ". I'm afraid I missed it, if you had at any time suggested, but later abandoned, spelling it without an e or ae, spelling it with diacritics, or that "aether" is the modern spelling.
I'm afraid you would have to explain for me your seemingly ridiculous accusation that I was “out of line” with S-PMA as per your “relevant evidence” from the OED; evidence that “by the way”, “supports [my] view that aether and ether are forms of the same word”. Am I to apologize that you agree with me? Actually, you'd have quite a bit of explaining to do:
I'd say your vaguely menacing innuendo was much more unkind than what I said in #RE-4, (that I obliged the demand from #S-PMA-4), “Fibnd me a source in which "aether" means diethyl oxide, or retract that claim”, [sic] in the hope that S-PMA would quit WP:DISRUPTing the discussion.
I don't know where either of you imagine personal attacks, but S-PMA clearly asked me to retract the claim from #RE-3, (that S-PMA had not elaborated on “how there would be a precision issue and why there's not currently a precision issue” as I requested in #RE-2). S-PMA merely asserted in #S-PMA-2, “I do see a precision issue, for example; the existence of redirects does not obviate the question of what the article itself is best titled” but the existence of the redirect is neither an example of a supposed problem, nor does it explain why switching the names would manifest a problem. S-PMA's bewildering assertions in #S-PMA-3 (that "aether" is more precise and accurate than "ether", though it's somehow irrelevant), once again failed to offer any rational justification, despite the protest to the contrary.
Noetica, you claim to agree with some of what S-PMA said, but you neglect to say what. Frankly, you disagree with S-PMA's main point that “aether is any robust sense "more accurate" for the present article”, so apart from announcing your decision at long last, I find it difficult to fathom your post while assuming good faith. My bad?—Machine Elf 1735 13:24, 14 October 2011 (UTC)
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