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A couple of things. There is a line (referencing a NY Times article) that Wagner has been using Enter Sandman longer than Rivera, but the article says nothing about the timeline of the song's usage. Can anybody find anything? I also remember hearing on a broadcast that they chose the song for Rivera because his slight frame and easy delivery lulled batters to sleep. Still can't find anything concrete about that either. Help? --Deriobamba (talk) 13:32, 29 September 2009 (UTC)
"During that season, if the Yankees were leading after six innings, they were nearly assured of victory due to the stellar pitching of both relievers." I'm curious to know the Yankees' winning percentage in games when both Rivera and Wetteland pitched that year (or even just the games Rivera pitched). I think it would give more credibility to that declaration. Anyone know of a way to find that info? – flamurai (t) 04:13, May 11, 2005 (UTC)
Someone with an account or access to Elias Stats Buearu could probably provide a bit of definitive information on that. However (and I say this as a yankee fan) that statement is incredibly subjective. Wetteland was not exactly a "stellar" pitcher, in fact it used to be a cynical joke about how "exciting" the game was when he pitched, and not exactly in a good way. i'm not going to edit the page (probably because this is my first comment, let alone an edit), but while there is some truth to that statement, it definately needs to be reworded.– lucidmatt (t)
I also notice that this article lacks a discussion of Rivera's 2004 performance, especially in the ALCS, when he blew two saves. It's absence is conspicuous. ber06122, March 2, 2006. - Added a part about the 2004 postseason since its definitely important. -lionelxhutz One of the blown saves came in when he was put into a situation Tom Gordon created.
I removed the 2004 reference because it clearly wasn't written in a neutral point of view. It was written in a way to glorify the rival Red Sox, not to state facts. If you want to write a blurb about 2004, that's fine. But you don't see glowing descriptions about 1998, 1999, 2000, etc. At least the 2001 reference is fairly written. 2004 should get the same treatment. - fixer
I edited the 2004 reference a bit, removing the references to the "near-impossible" situations in which MR was placed. In game 4, Rivera started with the bases empty in the 8th. In game 5, he came in with runners on first and third with no outs -- a tough situation, but hardly one which is "nearly impossible" to escape without allowing a run. A strikeout and a double play would do the trick nicely. Hopefully the section now reads neutrally.--Strabismic 02:20, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
If it were that easy.
Just my opinion, but it seems that an unproportional amount of Red Sox fans seem to edit this page with biased views.
How come his page includes nothing of the kidnapping of his mother? It seemed to me this was a fairly significant event. ? Timmypees 10:53, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
What is wrong with that section that it was deleted? The Legendary Ranger 16:53, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
Clearly a case of Yankee Fanboy vandalism... I'll readd it. 24.60.248.142 02:29, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
I edited the 2004 reference because it clearly wasn't written in a neutral point of view. This isn't a Red Sox entry, just a Mariano Rivera. All Rivera really did was give up a walk and a single in game 4, and a sacrifice fly in game 5. He didn't lose either game. Stick to the facts. Take note of the 2001 reference - it is fairly written for a similar situation.
a walk, a stolen base and a game tying single, is more like it... actually. Lionelxhutz 15:22, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
This section, is not written like an encyclopedia. E.g.: "Rivera immediately flew home, and his status for the upcoming ALCS was in doubt. Although the funeral in Panama was held on the same day as Game 1 against the Boston Red Sox, Rivera flew 2,200 miles back to New York and arrived at Yankee Stadium in the 5th inning to a standing ovation.[2] Despite the emotional day, Rivera was able to record a save later that night, as well as in Game 2." Removing things like, "flew 2,200 miles", "despite the emotional day", etc. will make it sound less like you're trying to tell a dramatic story, and more like you're listing facts w/o any POV.
The same holds true for "He allowed only a sacrifice fly to Jason Varitek, but it tied the score. Although Rivera only allowed one earned run in the entire 2004 postseason." I'm going to take out the "only"s. The most important fact is that he had consecutive blown saves which lead to the Sox's win, not that he "only allowed" a sac fly, or a run. Pseudonym214 (talk) 02:03, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
Can someone tell me where you are getting your information from regarding the "early career"? Every article I have read (including the new ones about Philip Hughes) say that Mariano was throwing 95 since he was in the minors. His problem was that he was a two pitch pitcher, and people would "sit fastball" until he developed the cutter. I referenced 2 articles with this fact in my post, but yet someone still wrote that he was sent down and suddenly discovered a fastball. Please reference the article because I can't find it.
Thank you for an informative and well-done page on Mariano Rivera. I'd like to respectfully point the editor's attention to an inaccuracy on the page regarding Early Career that stems from inaccuracies in the text cited [8], not necessarily the diligent work of the wikipedia editor and contributors to the page. The purpose for calling the editor's attention to the inaccuracy in the Early Career section is to help align the section with biographical and historical facts in order to avoid reader confusion. The sentence in question on the wikipedia page is the following: "Yankees scout Chico Heron attended one of his games and after watching Rivera throw, Heron arranged for him to attend a Yankees tryout camp in Panama City where Raybourn was visiting.[8]." A more accurate and more recent account of these events would be from articles in which Mr. Raybourn was interviewed directly. One such example is from http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/06/sports/baseball/06scout.html?_r=1 (and is also citation 3 on the Rivera wikipedia page). The inaccuracies in the wikipedia sentence above are that Mr. Heron, a bird dog, did not see Mr. Rivera pitch before Mr. Raybourn had and did not recemmend nor arrange for Mr. Raybourn to attend a Yankees tryout camp after seeing Mr. Rivera throw. Mr. Raybourn instead received a call from the catcher of Panamá Oeste asking Mr. Raybourn to scout Mr. Rivera in the role of pitcher one year after Mr. Raybourn had discovered Mr. Rivera in the role of shortstop. In consideration for the editor and contributors, it could be easy to interpret the events in [8, p.4] (upon which the wikipedia sentence above is based) as sequential, causal events (even though this is not explicitly stated in the chapter there is this implication)--but since the reference in [8] is only a few lines deep, citing [3] or other sections of [8] such as pages 5-6 could address the inaccuracies mentioned in this post. Thank you for your attention to this matter.Simgame (talk) 11:28, 9 October 2010 (UTC)
Suggested modification for sentence in question (see post above): Yankees scout Raybourn received a call about a talented pitcher and later attended one of Rivera's games. Raybourn then scheduled Rivera for a workout in Panama City where he could see him pitch.[3] Simgame (talk) 11:40, 9 October 2010 (UTC)
The sentence "... is arguably the best closer in baseball history" is biaised. For me, the best closer ever is Trevor Hoffman and for other people it could be Lee Smith, John Franco or another closer. "Arguably" is a weasel word, that's why I put the weasel tag. I suggest to replace this by mentioning for example that he is 4th on the all-time saves list and that his ERA is the best among pitchers with at least 300 saves or something like that. This would be more neutral. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 216.246.231.201 (talk • contribs) 15:09, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
How is Trevor Hoffman better? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Iamhungey (talk • contribs) 10:30, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
When he closed 2 years longer and had a WHIP and ERA slightly higher as well. :How is Trevor Hoffman better? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Iamhungey (talk • contribs) 17:39, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
I agree that Mariano Rivera is one of the best closers ever, but anyway I still prefer Hoffman because he does almost has good without having an overpowering fastball and a top-notch breaking pitch like Mariano's cutter. Hoffman fools hitters with less raw stuff and that's the type of player I like. I also don't like the Yankees, so my preference for Trevor Hoffman may be biaised by that. I won't modify the introduction paragraph as long as it stays the way it is now because it is neutral enough for me. Canjth, 3 August 2006 12:39
Let's stop this! I'm a Hoffman fan, and I am going to defend him. All right! Mariano Rivera is one of the greatest pitchers in history. But it is not Hoffman's fault if the Padres didn't make the playoffs every year. If Hoffman had played for a team which made the playoffs every year, perhaps he would have done as well as Rivera. It is useless to keep arguing about this because there will always be Hoffman fans and Rivera fans, and their positions are impossible to reconciliate. Nobody has the right answer, it is just a question of differences. When I added the very first comment that startled this argument, it was the first time I added something to a talk page and I ahd seen in the wikipedia project page about weasel words that "arguably" was not supposed to be used in articles. Being a Hoffman fan, I noticed that the word "arguably" was used and I signaled it on the talk page because I saw a bias in it and there are not supposed to be bias in articles. Also notice that I didn't edit the Trevor Hoffman page to say that he was the best closer in history. I have not vandalized or used weasel words in articles. And I respect Rivera fans, so please respect Hoffman fans, including me, for their preference. Canjth 18:21, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
Finally, someone has managed to find a suitable formulation to say that Rivera is "often considered the best closer". Please leave it the way it is. Canjth 7 September 2006 17:54
I think a more accurate phrase would be "amost universally thought of as the best closer" or "the best post-season closer". Hoffman is just not considered a better closer by the sports writers and the majority of fans. Call it a NY bias, call it whatever you want.
You also have to consider the fact that Hoffman has not done well in pressure situations. Remember the All-Star game? Mariano pitches in a pressure situation every time he comes in to a game at Yankee stadium, and even more so in the post season. You can argue all day about what Hoffman WOULD do if he had more post-season opportunities, but judging any future performances by his past outings....has Trevor coming up short. --andrew leahey 07:14, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
Of course it's an opinion to call somebody the best anything. You could make the argument that Joe Shmoe is the best baseball player ever. In this case I think putting something to the effect of "generally regarded as.." is appropriate.
Hoffman is better because hes the only player ever with 500+ saves. --HPJoker 22:00, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
All the Hoffman fans here conveniently gloss over Hoffman's poor post season performances, including but not limited to a game 3 shelling in the 1998 World Series, as well as a few other blown saves in the playoffs. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tjrover (talk • contribs) 02:00, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
Can someone explain how these nicknames keep getting put back into the article? Their inclusion is nothing less than asinine. "Mo" is the only thing he is ever called on a regular basis. You will 99.9% of the time never hear Rivera referred to as "Sandman" or "The Hammer of God." "The Sandman" is only referenced when "Enter Sandman" plays and as for the "The Hammer of God"... I've never heard anyone actually call him this with the exception of 2 articles. And when a nickname is used that little, it's not a nickname by nature, at all! Just exclude it....
You have a precedence for this on Wikipedia articles of every professional athelete. Johnny Damon's article doesn't have a comprehensive list of everything he's ever been called in his career, such as "Jesus", "Caveman", "Unfrozen Caveman Lawyer", etc. Derek Jeter doesn't have a ridiculous list of "Mr. November", "The Captain", "Captain Clutch", "Jetes", etc. in his introduction! Why is an exception being made for this article for 2 things you will NEVER hear on a regular basis? There is a precedent that has been set and I would expect that this article should follow it.
Remember this is an encyclopedia article, not a fanboy website. Y2kcrazyjoker4 05:53, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
Until you get banned that is, would you find it funny then?Iamhungey (talk) 00:53, 29 November 2011 (UTC)
As I'm a Yankees fan myself, I feel bad about failing this (especially since no one even put notice of the nomination here until I did just now), but here goes.
And what of his life off the field? I seem to remember some while back a lawsuit by one of the Yankees' assistant clubbies in which he alleged that other employees and some players, Rivera included, did some nasty things to him that constituted sexual harassment. What happened with that?
This would be good, perhaps, for a baseball wiki. But we are a general-interest encyclopedia, and we need to be more than just fans. Daniel Case 22:29, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
Many claim that this birthday is not his true birthday. Has anyone else come accross debates on this issue? --131.194.226.12
Maybe both anon and registered users want to discuss about the content dispute in this talk page? If this revert warring continues I may use protection to force everyone to use this talk page. --WinHunter (talk) 04:55, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
I've placed legitimate, referenced content concerning nicknames on the page. The name of this site is "Wikipedia - The Free Encyclopedia"...with the operative word being "Encyclopedia", which should contain as much substantiated content as possible to give the best possible experience to the reader and be as expansive as possible. A certain user seems to believe that this page is their own personal forum and exclude many instances of valid content - depriving all of us of an expansive, entry rich in content. I've even offered to demote my content to the bottom of the page (the Trivia Section), but that was also reverted by this user. I also offer the fact that no one else seems to take issue with my referenced content. I can only conclude that the majority of the readers find the content beneficial to the page. Winhunter, what do we stand for here? Expansive, rich content, or an atmosphere of totalitarianism in which the voices of many are suppressed by the few? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:68.163.140.87 (talk • contribs) (UTC)
Expansive and rich is correct. I am completely accurate in my assessment. The nicknames are provided are "actual" nicknames since I've provided references as such. Period. End of discussion. Also, the "plenty of other users reverting my content" consist of 1. You and 2. Canjth. Two is not a-plenty. Although I do not have proof, I strongly suspect 1 = 2, or there is some relationship between both. I believe we will not reach common ground, even though I attempted to demote my content to the bottom of the article. So, unfortunately, the reversion war will continue. I have no choice but to fight E-tyranny. Oh, one more thing...... stop harassing me and calling me delusional, delirious, and senseness. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:68.163.140.87 (talk • contribs) (UTC)
I apologize for the suspicion of sockpuppetry, but nothing else. What you're failing to understand is that a deal will need to be cut here. (I'm guessing you're teenagers and haven't figured that one out yet.) Gentlemen, deals, like money, make the world go around. They have for thousands of years, and will continue to forever (and the internet won't change this). That said, gentlemen, I'll offer to demote my content to the Trivia section (which I already have done, in good faith). Then I'll disappear, and you'll both be rid of me. Oh, and banning won't work, I'll manage to resurface. Count on it.
Canjth, your willingness to compromise is sincerely appreciated. (So apparently you know Y2k in such a capacity to be influential? Heh.)
I'm for keeping the Sandman nickname in the trivia section, but not the Hammer of God. I've never heard anyone but Tony Kornheiser use that nickname and in that capacity, it's nothing more than a pet name. In keeping the Sandman nickname, it would likely make sense to mention it in the same piece of trivia that discusses "Enter Sandman" as his entrance music. Y2kcrazyjoker4 19:13, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
I put my prior Triva note back in. I see where you're going, but I really want "Hammer of God". You have to admit I've provided references. "So throw me a friggin bone here, Scott." It's a small price to pay to be rid of me :)
Is there a source for this stat? I poked around a bit but could not find a source for this. Mahalo. --Ali'i 18:08, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
he's #42 whean #42 is retired by all major leuge teams...SO WHY THE CRAP IS HE #42 !!!??? (p.s.- am i the only one to notice this ???!!!)--Sonicobbsessed 19:24, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
“ | On April 15, 2007, players around the league wore #42 in honor of the 60th Anniversary of Jackie Robinson breaking the color barrier. Rivera took part in the festivities by wearing the number as usual. For his entire career, Rivera has worn #42, which has been retired by all Major League Baseball teams since 1997 in honor of Robinson. Rivera is permitted to use the number due to a grandfather clause allowing active players to retain it if they had worn the number prior to its league-wide retirement. As the only remaining player covered by the clause, Rivera will be the last Major League player to wear the number full-time. | ” |
Rivera yielded only one home run in 1996 in 107 2/3 innings - to Rafael Palmeiro of Baltimore (see home run logs) --LaserLubin 15:33, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
According to MLB.com, Rivera will accept a 3-year $45M offer from the Yankees. A reference to this news story has been posted to Mariano's page accordingly. New York Dreams (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 04:03, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
Having passed the WP:GA nomination with only a few issues, I think the article is well-written enough to recommend a nomination for WP:FA status. What does everyone else think? Y2kcrazyjoker4 (talk) 17:48, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
Who put that he is a pitcher for San Diego? I changed it back, but who changed it in the first place? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.246.117.91 (talk) 21:04, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
The referenced piece says that Rivera had his UCL "moved," which doesn't make sense. You can't move a ligament. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.130.142.208 (talk) 15:36, 21 February 2010 (UTC)
Apparently there are objections to updating from {{Rf}} / {{Ent}}. These templates have been deprecated for over a year and are being discussed for deletion. They create duplicate HTML ids which results in invalid HTML output— see Help:Markup validation and the validation for this article ---— Gadget850 (Ed) talk 13:19, 11 March 2010 (UTC)
Reading this article reminded me of other articles I've seen about Mo presiding over kangaroo court. Does anyone think this is notable enough for inclusion? My first thought was yes, but now I'm not so sure. --Muboshgu (talk) 20:49, 11 July 2010 (UTC)
Hello! This is a note to let the editors of this article know that File:Mariano Rivera allison 7 29 07.jpg will be appearing as picture of the day on March 4, 2011. You can view and edit the POTD blurb at Template:POTD/2011-03-04. If this article needs any attention or maintenance, it would be preferable if that could be done before its appearance on the Main Page so Wikipedia doesn't look bad. :) Thanks! howcheng {chat} 17:19, 28 February 2011 (UTC)
Perhaps I'm just a pig-headed American, but I'm really not seeing the point in writing US$. MoS recommends not doing this unless there is a high chance that there will be confusion (i.e. the earnings of a company with HQ in both the US and Canada). Rivera is in Major League baseball, and players do all of their contracts in American dollars. And Rivera's native country, Panama, uses both American dollars and Balboas; there's no Panamanian dollar, so I don't see where the potential confusion is. But I'm persuadable. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 06:05, 5 September 2011 (UTC)
Rivera is well-known for his composure and calm, placid demeanor, which contrasts with the emotional, demonstrative nature of many other closers.
The above text is in the Player profile section and also summarized in the lead. The highlighted text in yellow cites an ESPN article, but the only thing I see that remotely supports this is "They enter games to fanfare normally reserved for Oprah and pro wrestlers ...", but Rivera himself enters to "Enter Sandman". Are there better sources, or should the highlighted comparison be removed? —Bagumba (talk) 17:30, 8 September 2011 (UTC)
And this too remains constant: the demeanor. The son of a Panamanian fisherman, the father of three, Rivera has the countenance of a benevolent king; baseball royalty without the arrogance. Clean-shaven, soft-spoken, unhurried, understated and humble, he is an organic closer, free of the add-ons and posing and histrionics that so many others have needed or manufactured to deal with the stress of the job.
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