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This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Taba and Nuweiba drone attacks which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 22:05, 5 November 2023 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: not moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) - 🔥𝑰𝒍𝒍𝒖𝒔𝒊𝒐𝒏 𝑭𝒍𝒂𝒎𝒆 (𝒕𝒂𝒍𝒌)🔥 12:04, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
Houthi involvement in the 2023 Israel–Hamas war → Houthi movement and the 2023 Israel–Hamas war – "Involvement" implies a strong implication by the Houthis in the war, however all that's happened is that they've attacked Israel with drones and missiles. Which is quite minor. Super Dromaeosaurus (talk) 11:46, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
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Add to Events sections
On 24, November, An Israeli-owned ship was targeted in suspected Houthi/Iranian attack in Indian Ocean.
Reference:
https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-hamas-ship-drone-attack-symi-39929cae42a191b2f242896a053123a7 Sam6897 (talk) 10:49, 25 November 2023 (UTC)
Should the "infobox" section Refer to the Houthis as: Yemen (SPC) as seen in the Yemeni civil war (2014–present) article? Abo Yemen✉ 16:59, 15 December 2023 (UTC)
Houthi involvement in the Israel–Hamas war | |||||||
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Part of the 2023 Israel–Hamas war | |||||||
Houthi attacks on commercial ships in the Bab-el-Mandeb strait | |||||||
| |||||||
Belligerents | |||||||
|
Israel United States France United Kingdom Saudi Arabia | ||||||
Commanders and leaders | |||||||
Salman bin Abdulaziz | |||||||
Units involved | |||||||
Yemen Air Force and Air Defence |
Royal Saudi Air Force | ||||||
Strength | |||||||
Unclear (see Houthi armed strength) |
1 Sa'ar 6-class corvette[1] 3 Arleigh Burke-class destroyers[a] 1 FREMM multipurpose frigate[2] 1 Type 45 destroyer[3] | ||||||
Casualties and losses | |||||||
Unclear | 1 MQ-9 Reaper drone shot down | ||||||
Six Egyptian civilians wounded | |||||||
One cargo ship seized by the Houthis and 25 crewmembers remain captured; another ship was captured, released the same day and 22 crewmembers were freed |
The Houthis have been doing these attacks under the name of the Yemeni Armed Forces and news outlets like Aljazeera referred to the attacks being made by Yemen
My proposal is seen on the right
Tagging some users who might be interested in participating: @David O. Johnson @L.Willms @Eladkarmel @Mr.User200 Abo Yemen✉ 16:59, 15 December 2023 (UTC)
References
"In a speech at a manufacturing exposition following the incident of 27 October, Egyptian president Abdel Fattah al-Sisi urged all parties in the 2023 Israel–Hamas War to respect Egypt's sovereignty, and emphasized that the Egyptian Army was able to protect the country in case of any more attacks."
Unclear that this is directly related to the subject, especially since retrieved 10/28. Drsruli (talk) 05:26, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
Yes, it’s better now, thanks. Drsruli (talk) 20:34, 13 December 2023 (UTC)
It is ridiculous to blame a single party for actions done by the state of Yemen thru its government. L.Willms (talk) 15:11, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
I believe it is misleading to simply list Saudi Arabia and Israel together, as all the Saudis really did was shoot down a missile that crossed its territory. Switzerland shot down 11 German fighter planes during the Battle of France; it is still not considered a belligerent, and rightly so. How about we make a separate column for Saudi Arabia (and any other country that happens to end up in the crossfire)? Mikrobølgeovn (talk) 22:29, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
The wording is used in this New York Times article:
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/08/world/middleeast/iran-israel-houthis.html David O. Johnson (talk) 12:48, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
This article is about the Houthi/Yemen involvement, and the table is of attacks in the Red Sea. So it is not clear why it includes the attack on CMA CGM Symi, in the India Ocean (on track between Jebel Ali, UAE and Malaysia, nowhere at all near the Red Sea). The only suspect named in the refs has been the Iranian Revolutionary Guard. Has any serious source claimed that there was any Houthi involvement? Davidships (talk) 01:55, 22 December 2023 (UTC)
According to US Central Command, USS CARNEY took down 14 drones on December 16 2023. This should be added to the "Attacks on shipping in the Red Sea" section.
Source: https://twitter.com/CENTCOM/status/1736035863849824595 128.244.11.5 (talk) 22:55, 22 December 2023 (UTC)
mv saibaba is a Gabon flagged oil tanker not an indian flagged so the flag should change to that of the country of gabon 2409:40F3:1000:4E5C:8000:0:0:0 (talk) 10:11, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
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2409:40F3:1000:4E5C:8000:0:0:0 (talk) 10:20, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
This one was 200nm of india:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houthi_involvement_in_the_Israel%E2%80%93Hamas_war
©Geni (talk) 12:32, 23 December 2023 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Looks like another in the long list of attacks on merchant shipping with little long term significance that would distinguish this from the numerous similar incidents. Probably fails WP:EVENT and does not warrant a standalone article. Ad Orientem (talk) 16:00, 25 December 2023 (UTC)
I've been tracking down the nature of the various Israeli links (or lack thereof). Some of the ships deserve their own articles, whereas others only subsections in their respective shipping company articles. I'll add the one-way drone attack on the Chem Pluto (the U.S. directly accused Iran, viz. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-67811929 approximately 200 NM (370 km) south-west of the city of Veraval, Indian, in the eastern Indian Ocean. Check the map if you don't know how Indian Ocean geography works... I'll add these deets later so as to not lose the forest for the trees. kencf0618 (talk) 17:33, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
I re-added the space warfare category, per this Telegraph ref mentioned in the article.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/11/04/how-israel-shot-down-ballistic-missile-in-space-houthis/ David O. Johnson (talk) 18:22, 31 December 2023 (UTC)
That article, which began exclusively about the attacks on the 27th, has expanded to cover essentially the same scope as this newer article. They should be merged; I've included here all of the material from that article, and left a note on the talk page there. If there are no concerns I'll merge histories into this title. – SJ + 01:45, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
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Deployed forces for the United Kingdom should be:
HMS Diamond HMS Lancaster HMS Richmond 2A02:C7C:DAE5:6900:2DF1:54F4:F135:E02D (talk) 21:09, 9 January 2024 (UTC)
Seeing as Iran is arming and supplying the Houthi movement, as well as politically (and potentially even militarily) supporting their attacks on commercial ships, there is the possibility that adding Iran as a supporter of the Houthis in this conflict, is warranted. Neutral Editor 645 (talk) 17:54, 10 January 2024 (UTC)
I have attempted several times to update Maersk Hangzhou, but my edits don't show up in the review - behavior which is new to me. This engagment generated the first known casualities in this theater, so it's not a minor matter. Nonetheless I am going to start a 2024 table. I am inclined to WP:Bold and get rid of the wall-o'-text except for the necessary background and context so we can get back to our timeline roots. kencf0618 (talk) 13:50, 7 January 2024 (UTC)
I am unable to edit the article, but there is a mistake that needs to be corrected please.
Currently, in reference to the Norwegian ship called the Strinda, the article states that:
The Houthi attack on the Strinda was an expansion of its series of attacks against maritime shipping in the strait; the Houthis began to attack commercial vessels without any discernible tie to Israel
However, according to The Guardian, their owners:
acknowledged a tentative Israeli port call scheduled for January, details it had not offered in the immediate hours after the attack in the Red Sea. “Upon the recommendation of our security advisers, it was decided to withhold this information until the vessel and her crew were in safe waters,” the company said in a statement.
So it is untrue that this was an expansion of the Houthis' targets.
Article: 81.129.201.199 (talk) 22:47, 11 January 2024 (UTC)
Massive bombing have started, edit now. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:589:4983:7940:8973:74F6:E499:FB77 (talk) 23:50, 11 January 2024 (UTC)
Can it be mentioned somewhere in the article why the Houthis say it's legal for them to attack ships in the Red Sea, and on the other hand, what laws and arrangements are in the Red Sea that would make it illegal? Do Houthis have some kind of jurisdiction in that location that they think gives them the right to do it? It's being discussed in the UN - what are the legal aspects?Jimhoward72 (talk) 17:01, 12 January 2024 (UTC)
Under the heading "January 2024", there's the following internal reference: "Main article: 2024 Yemen airstrikes". It became circular: it refers to an article that now circles back to that same page. It should be removed. P4p5 (talk) 15:34, 12 January 2024 (UTC)
@David O. Johnson I found a source which states this did happen not just off the coast of somalia, but in the Gulf of Aden: https://abcnews.go.com/US/2-navy-seals-missing-off-somalia-coast-nighttime/story?id=106352086
"The officials said that the SEALs had fallen into the water one after the other during the boarding of a vessel by boat in the Gulf of Aden."
This indicates that, despite the wording of being off the coast of somalia, that there is a relation to Yemen. May it be added now? Genabab (talk) 03:08, 14 January 2024 (UTC)
There are two problems with this section. Firstly, there is considerable random duplication between the tabular section and the prose content, which isn't helpful to the reader. Secondly, there are some entries which do not belong in this article at all, since they didn't have Houthi involvement, but do not have an obvious alternative destination. I am not sure what is the best solution - perhaps to spin off the detailed ship attacks into a separate article, with a slightly broader compass like "Attacks on shipping in the Israel–Hamas war", with an better structure for presenting the content, and leaving a summary section in this Houthi-related article. Any thoughts? - Davidships (talk) 18:57, 3 January 2024 (UTC)
Suggestion: add charts showing amount of shipping traffic etc. Sourced properly of course. Some are shown here (not source), also relevant for Covid and the 2021 Suez Canal obstruction (Ever Given). TGCP (talk) 20:22, 17 January 2024 (UTC)
There have been many violations of WP:1RR in the past day. This is a reminder that as an article covered by WP:ARBPIA it is under a 1RR restriction. Please be mindful of this. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 10:22, 12 January 2024 (UTC)
I was reading the Spanish wikipida and I think we should do the same think with the info box and have it say:
{Yemen_flag} Supreme Political Council
*Houthis movement
I think this would work the best as the we have two links for government of Yemen in the info box, the article for Yemen talks about the internal government, while there is another link for the SPC. LuxembourgLover (talk) 14:17, 12 January 2024 (UTC)
According to U.S. and Middle Eastern officials, Iranian paramilitary force IRGC has deployed several of its personnel inside Yemen, who are actively involved in the attacks on commercial shipping and transfer of missiles to the country. (External link) Ecrusized (talk) 22:41, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
I don't think this information deserves an "alleged" title. U.S. officials are as reliable as you can get on this since Iran always leaves plausible deniability to its foreign interventions. Ecrusized (talk) 20:52, 17 January 2024 (UTC)
Hey y’all. So myself along with a couple of others, have been working on the Simple English Wikipedia counterpart to this article (Red Sea Crisis article) and I wanted to bring some inter-wiki thoughts here.
On Simple, there was a brief discussion that believes a more or less detailed background may be useful, including at least a mention of the 1948 Arab–Israeli War and something about how Houthi came to power in Yemen.
Ok, I also wanted to see if any of y’all would take a look at the Simple English Wikipedia and see if you have any thoughts about ways it could be improved. Obviously, the two writing styles are different, but since Simple English Wikipedia is just basically a simplified version of this article, I wanted to extent and mention it as a way if any of y’all wanted to help out with a sister project; a very-closely related sister project.
Anyway, just some thoughts and comments to help improve this article as well as asking if y’all have thoughts for the sister-article. Cheers! The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 18:17, 20 January 2024 (UTC)
Why are numerous countries including India and Pakistan listed in the list of commanders but not Saudi Arabia? CollationoftheWilling (talk) 13:01, 21 January 2024 (UTC)
Please Remove Pakistan from the list of Belligerents (against Houthis).
As Pakistan Navy clearly states that deployment of ships in Arabian Sea region not aimed at helping any country against Houthis and this deployment is just for the protection of Pakistani merchant ships in Red Sea.
اقبال کا شاہین (talk) 17:09, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Consensus to move. I count 16 support !votes vs 7 opposed, and supporters cite valid arguments according to the article titles rules, such as WP:CONCISE, and common usage. (non-admin closure) (t · c) buidhe 19:37, 21 January 2024 (UTC)
Houthi involvement in the Israel–Hamas war → Red Sea crisis – Per [WP:COMMONNAME] according to these sources:[1][2][3][4][5][6][7] Abo Yemen✉ 04:44, 12 January 2024 (UTC)
Hilst [talk]
13:21, 19 January 2024 (UTC)Hilst [talk]
13:21, 19 January 2024 (UTC)Hilst [talk]
13:21, 19 January 2024 (UTC)Hilst [talk]
13:21, 19 January 2024 (UTC)Hilst [talk]
13:21, 19 January 2024 (UTC)References
{{cite web}}
: CS1 maint: archived copy as title (link)This edit request to Red Sea crisis has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Under commanders and leaders, please add Ali Khamenei 2600:100C:A218:92ED:A8DD:B2DD:368B:41EF (talk) 02:14, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
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'United States-Iran proxy war' should be changed to 'Iranian-American Proxy war,' it rolls better off the toung, and everyone knows what country the word 'American' with no prefaces is referring to. BurnerAcountOneThousandAndOne (talk) 22:43, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
{{Edit extended-protected}}
template. Shadow311 (talk) 15:40, 23 January 2024 (UTC)
As a participant of above debate, I think the title was going to maintain as Houthi involvement~. But suddenly, title was changed into current title, without any new discussion. Can anyone please explain what happened? Wendylove (talk) 00:24, 24 January 2024 (UTC)
Pinging @Abo Yemen. You've taken issue with consensus, and I'm assuming (since this is the only major thing to dispute) that it's related to the proxy conflicts that I mentioned in the infobox "part of" parameter. If anyone else wants to weigh in on this, it'd be much appreciated; I'm cool with whatever final verdict comes through. There's a discussion above concerning how this is indeed part of a proxy conflict with Iran, for reference. TheDoodbly (talk) 07:45, 3 February 2024 (UTC)
Hey guys there’s two competing articles for this topic called “Red Sea Crisis”. Maybe two articles should be merged? Here’s the link to the other
https://simple.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Sea_crisis Jab1998 (talk) 00:35, 2 February 2024 (UTC)
I've had a (google translated) read of the single Korean source used to describe potential North Korean involvement in the Houthi attacks and it is pretty much entirely just a description of a Voice of America press release. Voice of America is widely regarded as a US-Government propaganada outlet (and thus not reliable as an only source); not only that, but I cannot find the original VoA report anywhere that the Korean source relies upon.
Is anyone able to find a more appropriate source, or at least track down the VoA report? If not I'm going to remove the segment and the mention in the infobox. CoconutOctopus talk 04:13, 30 January 2024 (UTC)
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replace [citation needed] at "On 7 January the Pakistan Navy deployed two Tughril-class frigates, PNS Tughril and Taimur in the Arabian Sea following "recent incidents of maritime security."[citation needed]" with [1] and [2]. Thank you. Tornadoboy7 (talk) 16:48, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
References
Should be Reworded as:
vs
With Out the backing of the Super Nationd of USA and Iran, this long-distance conflict becomes quickly unsustainable. Both Israel and Yemen have no water or resources to start any conflict, they require external nourishmint.
ConnTroll (talk) 06:47, 9 February 2024 (UTC)
The lead sentence currently opens with, "The Red Sea crisis, also known as the United States–Iran proxy war […]"
There are sufficient citations to show that this is a US–Iran proxy war, but those citations do not show that this conflict is referred to as the US–Iran proxy war. This would be equivalent to the Vietnam War article opening with the sentence, "The Vietnam War, also known as the United States–Soviet Union proxy war…"
Unless this conflict is singularly a proxy war to the exclusion of any other conflict between the US (or its proxies) and Iran (or its proxies), this portion of the lead sentence does not make sense. The opening paragraph can and should talk about this being a proxy conflict, but it should. not say that "the US-Iran proxy war" is a common name for the conflict. --Delta1989 (talk) (contributions) 02:21, 27 January 2024 (UTC)
While de jure be a speakingman, there are some X posts indicated that this "speakingman" is also controlling drones and launch silos? Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 04:38, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
@Mr.User200: I don't understand your revert here. Are you suggesting that US-Houthi conflict is not a part of this article? If so, then the current 15 killed should also be removed as they were caused by US attacks. Ecrusized (talk) 18:26, 21 January 2024 (UTC)
Additionally, I think you misread the article, those 75+ killed are since 12 January, 2024 missile strikes in Yemen, not 7 October. Ecrusized (talk) 18:28, 21 January 2024 (UTC)
Moved from talk page
The USAF does not operate F/A-18s 73.225.67.247 (talk) 04:35, 22 February 2024 (UTC)
Probably just a typo "Denmark's frigate HDMS Iver Huitfeldt departed from the Kosor naval base" Danish frigate HDMS Iver Huitfeldt departed from the Korsør naval base Faunidhol (talk) 17:18, 22 February 2024 (UTC)
(New to this Wiki stuff, so forgive me if I'm not following procedure) I was reading up on this page and noticed the sentence "Houthis said they will not stop until Israel ceases its war on Hamas." But then the linked sources do not mention the Houthis saying anything about Hamas at all. They are quoted talking about Gaza. So I don't think the current text is accurate. I see it was previously phrased "war on Gaza" before this revision. I would recommend reverting this change, or accepting the revision author's suggested "War in Gaza", or something else more descriptive of what the Houthis demands actually are. Wavdl (talk) 19:24, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
India is already a major belligerent. it has deployed 7-14 ships and has done around 250 checks recently and therefore i believe we need to add leaders of india in the commanders section.
One of those sources: https://www.reuters.com/world/india-deploys-unprecedented-naval-might-near-red-sea-rein-piracy-2024-01-31/ General Phoenix (talk) 07:48, 24 February 2024 (UTC)
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Add the deaths from the missile strikes into Houthi territory into this infobox, I have no idea why that is not already the case, considering those bombings are part of the Red Sea crisis. BurnerAcountOneThousandAndOne (talk) 18:45, 24 February 2024 (UTC)
{{Edit extended-protected}}
template. Melmann 14:50, 26 February 2024 (UTC)Royal Navy:
Missing 2x Type 23 Frigates, in addition to the Type 45 deployed (HMS DIAMOND).
HMS RICHMOND - deployed Jan 2024 [1]. First known engagement 08/03/2024. [2]
HMS LANCASTER - is deployed both between Red Sea and Operation KIPION in the Persian and Indian Oceans. [3]
Royal Air Force:
2x Voyager KC2 [4]
---
[2] - https://www.forces.net/middle-east/hms-richmond-shoots-down-two-houthi-drones-sea-ceptor-missiles
[4] - https://www.gov.uk/government/news/statement-on-air-strikes-against-houthi-military-targets-in-yemen--2 90.241.83.57 (talk) 20:23, 9 March 2024 (UTC)
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Hezbollah is listed twice in the belligerents section (Underneath its flag), remove the second time. Kevinishere15 (talk) 20:40, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
The first paragraph of the lead does not indicate why the attacks by Houthis are conducted. Only in 4th paragraph, it is making reference to Israel related ships being targets. It would be much more encyclopedic to let the reader know why those attacks. --Mhhossein talk 21:21, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
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Move Pakistan (and ideally, other independents, if applicable) the "Combatant 3" infobox parameter. The cited source, Arab News, does not state the Pakistan Navy was deployed to fight the Houthis. Solblaze (talk) 04:20, 24 February 2024 (UTC)
To my knowledge, the United States Air Force does not operate F/A-18s as stated in the infobox specific units section. 27.125.131.191 (talk) 13:27, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
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In units Israeli Sa'ar 6 corvette is mentioned but not it's name in specific units, Following sources state that it's INS Magen which was deployed into red sea:
Following sources state that Sa'ar 5 class warship INS Hanit and INS Eilat has also been deployed to red sea
Waleed Ukranian (talk) 05:02, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
Source for F 35i Adir
Source for Arrow 3
Waleed Ukranian (talk) 23:26, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
China has also deployed warships in the red sea which are the guided-missile destroyer Jiaozuo, the missile frigate Xuchang and the comprehensive replenishment vessel Honghu and 2 helicopters, Sources :
And Sri Lanka also deployed warship SLNS Gajabhau , it was proposed according to this article
And this interview also states it's been deployed, interview is on YouTube but it's cited in SNLS Gajabhau article, I can't send link here for some reason Waleed Ukranian (talk) 03:24, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
Source:
I also found a source indicating PNS Taimur is deployed
Waleed Ukranian (talk) 23:43, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
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On the belligerents section of the infobox, put a colon next to Aspides for consistency's sake.
There are also 2 notes that aren't part of the notelist, resulting in 2 [a]s and 2 [b]s. Sticks out like a sore thumb, at least to me. Would be better off fixed. ZionniThePeruser (talk) 03:18, 27 March 2024 (UTC)
Should we count Sky News Arabia as a reliable source for articles related to the Yemeni crisis and the Israel-Hamas war? Abo Yemen✉ 09:03, 22 February 2024 (UTC)
I removed Russia from the infobox because it doesn't seem like the vessels they deployed to the Red Sea were sent because of the Houthis. Maritime Executive says they were sent to mark the 30th anniversary of diplomatic ties between Russia and Eritrea and will leave on 5 April. Chomik1129 (talk) 18:14, 29 March 2024 (UTC)
Shouldn't specific units be transferred to Units involved rather than strength as it currently is in the infobox, it makes more sense to put them in units involved section Waleed Ukranian (talk) 06:30, 25 March 2024 (UTC)
Djibouti has given diplomatic approval of the Houthis blockading the Red Sea. Seeing it in the view that it is for the Palestinian cause. The Djiboutian FM does not condemn the operations and said it was a brotherly duty. A translated speech of his is in the link provided
Youssouf Moussa Dawaleh, the president of the chamber of commerce stated that "Whatever dents the Houthi attacks have left in Djibouti’s economy, the government is not about to join the coalition against them, and has warned America not to carry out retaliatory strikes from the country. “Djibouti doesn’t have any wars to wage against anybody,” an adviser to the president told me, adding: “The world also knows Djibouti’s position with regard to the situation in Gaza…Genocide, to tell it like it is.” Djibouti, whose population is overwhelmingly Muslim, is one of five countries that have asked the International Criminal Court to investigate whether Israel has committed war crimes. Billboards around Djibouti city declare that “we are all Palestinians”."
Replayerr (talk) 21:41, 17 April 2024 (UTC)
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Typo in the table Timeline of attacks. Line MSC Alanya: Replace 'unkmown' with 'unknown'
Thanks!! UnwesentlichUnwissend (talk) 16:38, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
Is this section really necessary? We have the exact same thing with more detail at Timeline of the Red Sea crisis. This article used to include a table but it was removed for this reason. Chomik! (talk?) 16:43, 8 June 2024 (UTC)
Timeline of the Red Sea crisis - Wikipedia D1d2d3d29 (talk) 17:07, 9 June 2024 (UTC)
As of today 68.199.243.137 (talk) 22:25, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
According to the protection log, it is only currently locked because it was previously locked before it was moved. Maybe it should be reassessed?
There are some typos I would like to fix. MisterAziz (talk) 16:41, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
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