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I changed "the nebbish Strunk" to "Strunk". My dictionary here says that a nebbish is a weak-willed and timid person. Even if this were true, I don't think it's the place of the Wikipedia to editorialize like that. - Dominus 15:48, 22 Aug 2003 (UTC)
Evidently by the time of White's 1979 introduction to EOS his memory had gotten a little rusty. In it he states there were seven usage rules and eleven composition principles in the original version, but both online versions of the 1918 book show eight usage rules and ten principles. Or perhaps he only had Strunks 1935 version available (which I don't), accounting for the difference. --Blainster 09:52, 27 May 2005 (UTC)
Ironically, this article does not follow the guidelines of the book itself. (For example, the book instructs that punctuation marks following words within quotation marks should fall before the end quotation mark. The book also warns against overuse of the passive voice; this article is currently guilty of that mistake.) I am revising the article to conform with the book's admirable and proper advice. OlYeller 21:17, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
I've read the punctuation section in the WP:style manual, and it seems to indicate that the punctuation should be contained in the quotes. Like in these two examples from the article:
White studied under Strunk in 1919 but had forgotten the "little book", a "forty-three-page summation of the case for cleanliness, accuracy, and brevity in the use of English".
Unless these are scare quotes, in which case the current usage is correct. I'm going to be bold and make the changes. --Unixguy 12:41, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
Few edits have been as pleasurable as using Rule #2 from Strunk & White to add a serial comma to this article (and removing a few words at the same time). Petershank (talk) 07:04, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
Let's leave it out altogether, then. It's an opinion. --VKokielov 05:46, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
The term prescriptivist as used in the article seems to be a simple description of the author's practice. What is perjorative about it, and why are you claiming its use is part of some sort of cultural conflict? --Blainster 17:56, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
If I may interject a bit, to say that "prescriptivist" is perjorative is to also imply that "activist" is similarly perjorative--which it is clearly not. "-ist" can come at the end of "terror" or it could come at the end of "natural". To say that a suffix is ipso facto perjorative does no good to the study of the English language, be it Queen's English or Yankee English. (And I am an American, so I am using the term "Yankee" in an ironic sense.) Just because there are some uneducated persons who would possibly use "prescriptivist" as an insult, does this mean that we must accept those who deify the lowest common denominator as the experts on language? Go ahead and call me an "elitist". Really, I consider that a badge of honor.--Kulturvultur 02:04, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
Geez, did Wordsworth ever *say* he was a Romantic? Guess I'm off to remove all those pejoratives from the Wordsworth page!
All I have to add on the word "prescriptivist", and to clarify my analogy, is that it doesn't belong in the introductory paragraph, and points a finger where it shouldn't. Again, it's no better than calling Bill Clinton an "abortionist" or Bush a "lassez-fairist". --VKokielov 18:17, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
Yes, again, technically you are right - but there is a difference between linguists who study language (and should stick to describing it) and grammarians who develop usage guides to help people communicate in a mutually intelligible fashion. When you call the former 'prescriptivist'(e.g. those 'linguists' who say things like 'this subculture speaks 'substandard english because they don't follow the rules') that is an appropriate criticism. When you place the same tag on grammarians who harp on freezing a language in time, that might be appropriate. When you place that tag on grammarians and teachers who strive for mutual understanding in a growing, moving language just because they establish some normative rules or guidelines, that is totally inappropriate, POV, and shortsighted - there have to be some guidelines...Bridesmill 15:17, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
Concur. Strunk isn't my fave either Bridesmill 18:26, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
.Bridesmill 17:18, 2 July 2006 (UTC) I'm wondering if it might be good to put in a little on the topic of ending sentences with prepositions, just since it's a matter that seems to often be misunderstood. Many people apparently have learned that there is a strict rule against this, but Strunk & White insist it's not a hard and fast rule at all, only an element of style to be considered... Kengwen 00:00, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
16. Eschew obfuscation. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 165.125.144.16 (talk) 13:01, 15 February 2007 (UTC).
I see that previous discussion has attempted to deal with Pullum-esque criticism of Struck & White. I find it odd that there is no "criticism" section at all in the current article. (I don't count "See also Prescription and description".) Whatever about avoiding prejudicial labels in the introduction, I think the critics deserve some mention. Even if they are few and far between, that itself is worth mentioning.
I'm not American, and I'm not sure what "required reading in composition classes" means. Does "required reading" mean just that, or does it imply that the advice must not only be read but also be followed? Is "composition class" something that all students take, with a view to writing term papers and the like, or is it restricted to students of journalism or other writing-focussed disciplines?
I found Pullum's hatchet-jobs amusing, but I haven't read Strunk & White. It seems to me, from perusing the languagelog postings which allude to S&W, that Pullum's beef is that Strunk & White's attempts to provide specific technical advice are simplistic; that they themselves break their own rules; and that officious schoolmarms and subeditors, and writers insecure of their own technique, may blindly follow the crude rules to an extent which contradicts any natural linguistic instincts, and which Strunk and White themselves would never have done or intended others to do. In other words, S&W encourage hypercorrection.
It's interesting that Fowler seems to get less flak at languagelog; this may be because it's less (directly) influential in the U.S., or it may be that those aspects of S&W which stick in their craw are not dealt with in Fowler, or that Fowler is less dogmatic in his judgments. jnestorius(talk) 18:50, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
I'm happy to be part of this discussion, but I removed the institutional affiliation with my name. My writing online is as a private person, separate from my academic affiliation. Also -- in any discussion of criticism and context, Mark Garvey's recent book Stylized, about The Elements of Style, would be worth noting. (Michael Leddy) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.124.93.29 (talk) 02:33, 27 January 2010 (UTC)
the link to the pdf version in the "External links" section is broken
Is the extensive quoting of Strunk & White's rules, and the links to .ru sites with copies of the book in seeming copyright violation, appropriate? Kasyapa (talk) 00:46, 22 November 2007 (UTC)Kasyapa
.ru is the country code for Russia. You know, that place where they can print what they want because they don't have to respect US/Intl. copyright law? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 138.163.0.43 (talk) 16:21, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
Surely it's not appropriate to link to one's own brief, unremarkable "review" of the book as some sort of significant external link, Mr. Geana.
Surely this article should be written using American English? DMorpheus (talk) 18:00, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
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