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Talk:USS Saratoga (CV-60)/Archive 1

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Archive 1

Concerning the Muavenet incident

I can attest, as an eye-witness, while two seasparrows were fired at the ship only one of them hit. I was working on the flight deck and had my back to the launcher when the first missile fired. Turning around I watched the missle corkscrew toward the Muavenet. Just before the first missile hit a second was fired and also tracked toward the target. The first missile impacted the Muavenet's bridge and immediately started a fire. The second missile lost track and went ballistic before it reached the Muavenet. I would assume someone shut down the beam it was riding. The fire was still visible when I went off duty at about 06:00. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Traumatic (talkcontribs) 20:07, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Copyright violation?

<This article is pretty much identical to this page on the Navy Office of Information page: http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/ships/carriers/histories/cv60-saratoga/cv60-saratoga.html

However, I see the Wikipedia text dates back to 2003, and the above page may have taken their text from Wikipedia rather than the other way around. Does anyone know which came first? --Esprqii (talk) 21:42, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Anything produced by the federal government is in the public domain, hence this page is not a copyvio. -MBK004 21:43, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Thanks, I figured it out, but you beat me to my retraction! ;-) --Esprqii (talk) 21:45, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Saratoga celebrated 1976 in Monaco

We anchored in Monaco for the 4th of July celebration there. the 200th anniv. of the US was celebrated by the ship's company participating in parades, as well as attending a party at the palace with Princess Grace. It was quite an event. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.206.60.22 (talk) 22:16, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Further Info regarding Hurricane event

I was on Sara in Operations/OP division as the CVIC Photo Lab Work Center Supervisor during the hurricane incident mentioned. Due to the strength of the wind from the south, the ship was pushed against the pier and unable to be pulled away by tugs. There was concern that the lines to the tugs may snap and injure personnel. We were secured from underway stations and everyone except the duty section went home for the night. We got underway the next day. I have never heard anything about "sinking" the ship. I expect that such an event would have been talked about, especially in OPs. Billyfotodog (talk) 03:13, 31 May 2009 (UTC)Wild Bill

Museum Progress?

No further information on progress towards turning it into a museum off Rhode Island? --ScreaminEagle (talk) 20:27, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

Speicher, et al

We have two problems here. Both with the media. One is that, during the war, the military has to throw the media off-track so they don't compromise operations. This is done by exaggerating "incidents" such as the loss of Speicher.

After the battle and war, however, we need an analysis of how the Saratogo really did. We are not getting a clear picture of that here. Only news releases and baloney from the media and the military.

The encyclopedia should not be a compendium of breathless news releases by the media. The Speicher loss and recovery has almost next to nothing to do with the battle or the war. It has a very peripheral contribution to Saratoga history. History is not what the media says it is. There is more to reality than that! Student7 (talk) 15:55, 5 August 2009 (UTC)


I take exception to your 'baloney' statement, unless you were there, you need to shush. The article gives you basic facts, over work, and such, that's what it's there for, and the loss of a shipmate, is significant! --TXbrn LArasd (talk) 13:54, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

The "Sorry Sir"

I worked with a guy that served on the Saratoga, and though I have no confirmation, he told me that the ship's nickname was the 'Sorry Sir'. Jimcripps 19:22, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

I was a member of the Saratoga engineering department from Desert Storm to her decommissioning. I have never heard anyone refer to the 'Sara' as 'Sorry Sir', but I have heard many refer to her as 'The Sorry Sara.' I never heard any explanation for the nickname and do not believe it is fitting. Other people referred to her as 'The Super Sara.' Sarasnipe (talk) 17:25, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

I was a YN3 (Yeoman Third Class) aboard the Sara, attached to CVW-17 under CAPT Dean Hendrickson and (now) Admiral Timothy Keating, during 90-92, and there was one other name other than Super Sara that was used, which was, Sinking Sara, refering to the accidental sinking, as well as the deliberate sinking of the ship (I believe I was told it was going into for SLEP, and they sunk it to get it on the supports). But that was many moons ago, any confirmation of that? --TXbrn LArasd (talk) 17:13, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

The Sara went into dry dock for the Ships Life Extension Program, or SLEP. When a ship enters dry dock, they must position the ship on supports that will support the ship the entire stay in dry dock. During this procedure, the voids are filled with water to lower the ship down onto the supports. This is not considered a sinking normally. There was talk of the Sara being 'sunk' in Mayport, FL next to her pier because a hurricane was threatening and the ship was unable to get underway. This was before my tour on her. Can anyone else verify this? Sarasnipe (talk) 05:56, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Sinking Sara was not used as much as 'Suckin 60 from Dixie' but honestly the last deployment truly was Super Sara. The Old Gal was top notch meeting every commitment and then some. When that AF wouldn't cover early morning commitments of Bosnia due to fog Sara filled in, even though our ceiling was lower, visibility shorter and we had flown all night. The sun would come up (kinda) and we kept flying until the skies cleared enough for the AF to feel safe. I will never forget the deck crews sleeping for 10-20 minute stetches in forward passages ways of the o2 deck. Tired but dedicated and doing whatever it took. — Preceding unsigned comment added by MJakabcsin (talk • contribs) 03:18, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

I can't verify it with documents, but I do remember that being talked about during my time there, I'd forgotten it until you mentioned it. I thought it was wierd to sink a ship to ride out the storm, but then considering the damage that a carrier could do being pushed against the pier during a hurricane, I can see the logic of it. --TXbrn LArasd (talk) 12:40, 5 August 2008 (UTC)


I was on the Saratoga with VF-103 on work-ups before Desert Shield/Storm and through that war. The nicknames I hears were "Sorry Sara" and "Suckin 60 From Dixie". You also missed the fact that VF-103 had the only F14 Tomcat ever shot down at that point (Aircraft 207) and that the Pilot (Lt. Jones) was rescued and the NFO (Lt. Slade) was captured and also paraded around by the Iraqi's. Lt. Jones was returned to the ship and continued to fly. Lt. Slade was release with Zahn and the others at the end of the war. David Barker, May 27, 2009. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.51.210.55 (talk) 14:01, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Notable naval officers: Captain Ron Rico

Who ever made that edit, you are my hero. 107.222.206.100 (talk) 20:19, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

Sinking 1971

I read somewhere that the ship sank whilst at anchor in Piraeus, Greece during 1971. Something to do with one of the rubber seacocks being worn away.

I shall try to get the book and reference it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.243.45.71 (talk) 19:21, 21 March 2008 (UTC)


OK....

In 1971 the Saratoga suffered a perished water gasket 30' below her waterline. She was successfully refloated, before sinking again, this time engineers worked out the problem and corrected it.

( p 128 The Brassey's book of naval blunders isbn 1-57488-253-8 ) — Preceding unsigned comment added by User:69.243.45.71 (talk)

I'm unclear as to whether this is an actual "sinking", as in totally underwater, or just taking on more water than normal, listing, etc. I'd like to have someone verify the source if they have access to it, as there seems to be something lost in translation here. - BillCJ (talk) 20:58, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
There's no mention of this whatsoever in Hazegray's copy of DANFS, which backs up my earlir thoughts that this was something relatively minor, and not something for which the word "sinking" would be used in English. An actual submersion of the entire ship is not a minor event, and would surely have received more coverage, vis-a-vis the rocket launching/fires on 2 carriers in the late 60s/early 70s. - BillCJ (talk) 21:06, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

Damage Control museum - Saratoga mentions two flooding incidents in August 1971 Athens Greece, no injuries and no mention that the ship was sitting on the bottom. While at anchorage it may be possible to flood to the point where the hull of a carrier rests on the bottom, but I don't know if that's classified as "sinking" and I don't know if its notable. It must have been a serious flood since it appears that the DC museum only lists very serious items. Also, there is a fire with 3 casualties (fatalities) in October 1972 that is not mentioned here. --Dual Freq (talk) 21:23, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

An associated press report says this: "An engine compartment of the aircraft carrier USS Saratoga flooded Sunday while the vessel was at a dock In Athens, Greece, the Navy reported today. A Navy spokesman at the Saratoga's home base said the ship was in no danger of sinking and there was no personal injury." ("Engine Area Floods On Carrier Saratoga". Associated Press. Times Record, The. Troy, New York. Wednesday, August 18, 1971. Page 41.) Sounds like it didn't sink, but it was bad enough to make the news. It was also mentioned in "U.S. Carrier Still Leaking" The Capital Times. Madison, WI. Tuesday, August 31, 1971. Page 3. which basically says the engine room flooded near Athens and as of 8/31 it was still leaking so they returned to Athens for more repairs. --Dual Freq (talk) 21:32, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

She did not sink, she "took on water heavily" She was lightened so she may be run aground if necessary. It was not. (no cites, I was there). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.125.52.64 (talk) 13:28, 15 August 2015 (UTC)

I was an Airman in 1971 TAD to S-6 division from HS-7 onboard the USS Saratoga. I found the nickname of the ship to be the "Fighting Cock" and was symbolized by the roosters on either hangar bay door that came together, spurs raised, as the hangar bay doors closed. The affectionate nickname seemed to be the "sucking Sara"

We were on a Med cruise, off the coast of Athens for liberty. I was waken up by a crew member with the announcement "Hey we're sinking" Right. Supposed to take 7 torpedoes to sink this ship (my thoughts) and he wakes me up to tell me we were sinking. The XO then came on the 1MC and made the announcement. "we are taking on water in the #3 machinery room, heavily. It is advised that nobody go on liberty. The word was that a huge coupling (it was later displayed on the hangar deck) had broken. It was a direct lead to the water. The Sara was ready to be lightened and run aground if need be. The flooding was brought under control, but the evaps had been contaminated by salt water and we could not drink the water, use the ice or other usages we would normally ingest fresh water quarantined. We pulled out of Athens, a day and a half out #4 machinery room coupling blew. As we are battle ready when out to sea (hatches battened down etc.) it took less time to control. With #2 machinery having a bad bearing, we limped back to Athens at a top speed of 8 knots. We were advised by Admiral Kidd to return to the states for repair, but the new Captain (the name escapes me) said that if we weren't operational under three screws at the end of September (or October, been a while) we would return. Repairs were made offshore Athens. One thing about having the contaminated water, we had fresh milk, not sterilized, for a long period of time. Before I left the ship in Mayport, the nickname of the shop had been changed to the sinking Sara which is what I call her when talking about that ship.

There is no cites as this is my recollection of my first Med Cruise, memory, not looked up fact. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sdgilman (talk • contribs) 11:35, 15 August 2015 (UTC)

And in reading other talks, no we did not sink. The name came around due to the incidences at the time.24.125.52.64 (talk) 13:24, 15 August 2015 (UTC)
This is not even in the article anymore and is a thread from 2008. No need to revive it. --Dual Freq (talk) 14:09, 15 August 2015 (UTC)

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Friendly fire shoot-down incident

The "Friendly fire shoot-down incident" section seems to have very little to do with the USS Saratoga and appears mostly like a WP:coatrack section to take pot shots at a someone who was recommended for promotion to Admiral. I trimmed it down a bit, to prevent WP:BLP issues and refocus on the ship, not a man. --Dual Freq (talk) 01:27, 31 May 2016 (UTC)

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