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Hello, Faelomx, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:
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on your talk page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Again, welcome! --Alex (talk here) 16:20, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
hola faelomx, creo que aqui andas mayor tiempo, por ello te voy a deci que donde estas? andas aca? por que no volves a la wikipedia en español? ... que paso? dime y ayudame!
84.122.192.41 19:24, 20 November 2006 (UTC) escribi aca abajo
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I have restored the map on "Voting Alliances". The image was removed by User:Klamber, with a edit summary "deleting unreferenced and geographically inaccurate map (e.g., why are Estonian islands different than mainland?". The user has now been blocked, suspected of being a sockpuppet. The issue seems to be some kind of irredentist paranoia. See also Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Estland. -- Petri Krohn 22:31, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
Hi Faelomx! I'd like you to reconsider/check your sources regarding that bit about el (p/P)uente de Toledo. I think part of the confusion is that with a capital P it would refer to the bridge crossing the Manzanares, whereas with a small p it would refer to the bridge crossing the Tagus. The other part is that bit about "... from then on, would take the same route to Toledo, but..."
It's clear that Toledo was the first destination after leaving Madrid, at least until the Despeñaperros route was finally developed (the works started in 1779). And probably until the N. IV headed off (towards Ocaña?). And once at Toledo, travellers had to decide whether to head "southwest, towards the valley of the Alcudia and the Guadalquivir or, for travellers headed for Jaén or Granada, southeast towards the Muradal Pass in the Sierra Morena, near Despeñaperros".
Your version:
The influence in Madrid was that with the opening of this passage from the entrance to Andalusia, the roads to Toledo were abandoned, and the new road became more important than the old one. The road from Madrid to Andalusia, from then on, would take the same route to Toledo, but turning south once past the Puente de Toledo.
My version:
The influence in Madrid was that with the opening of this passage from the entrance to Andalusia, the roads to Toledo were abandoned, and the new road became more important than the old one. The road from Madrid to Andalusia, from then on, would take the same route to Toledo, but turning south once past the bridge over the Tagus at Toledo.
From one of the interesting sources you provided (Atlas de Andalucía, pp. 163, 183. Junta de Andalucía.):
"Antes de la apertura de Despeñaperros [the works started in 1779], las rutas a Andalucía desde el centro de la Meseta partían de Toledo para bifurcarse posteriormente hacia el valle de Alcudia y el del Guadalquivir o hacia el puerto del Muradal, en las proximidades de Despeñaperros,..." [...] "Camino de las Ventas: Sirvió durante siglos como la principal vía de comunicación entre la Meseta y el valle del Guadalquivir. Entre Toledo y Sevilla..." (p. 163.) AND "En el mapa oficial de 1760 aparecen, además, las postas que unían Jaén, Granada, Málaga y Algeciras con el camino de Andalucía (aún por Almodóvar y Toledo), y por tanto con Madrid,..." [...] "el segundo mapa (1804) no difieren mucho del anterior, salvo ciertas mejoras,..." (p. 183.)
Sorry to take up so much space here, but before opening it up to the community at the article talk page (the article still needs a lot of cleaning up before too many people get to see it), let me know what you think/what your sources tell you. I'll be travelling over the next few days so won't be able to reply promptly, Cheers! Technopat (talk) 09:31, 24 August 2023 (UTC)
Hi Faelomx. You added references for "Wais 1974", "López Morell 2005", and "Rodríguez Lázaro 2000" to Despeñaperros Pass, but none of those works are defined in the article. {{sfn}} templates are used to create a hyperlink to a full cite, which explains which work the short form is referring to. Could you add the required cites to the Bibliography section, or let me know what they are? -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested ∆transmissions∆ °co-ords° 15:59, 3 October 2023 (UTC)
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