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MedCab case
Just so you know, an application for mediation has been made with you listed as an involved party at Wikipedia:Mediation Cabal/Cases/2011-08-29/Eurovision Song Contest 2012. CT Cooper · talk 18:48, 29 August 2011 (UTC)
About the JESC 2011 song list
Good work with editing the song titles in compliance with the official song list published by the EBU. However, you didn't need to list the same reference in all 14 songs, as it is redundant. Next time, if you want to list the same reference in every line of a column, place it in the header. Cheers, Kosm1fent Won't you talk to me? 17:17, 14 October 2011 (UTC)
- I have noticed constant reverts by yourself on edits made by Madlen T. I'm not sure if you are aware, but the list that is published on JuniorEurovision.tv, has been purposely published using the English translation for each song (with exception to the Belgian entry for some unknown reason). It is a known fact that all songs in JESC are performed in the native language, and should therefore be shown in the main article list as that of the native language, with English translation shown next to it (in the column provided). A list of song titles are also shown via here if this helps. Thanks - Wesley Mouse (talk) 16:58, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
- Negative. The official song list is the one published by the EBU: It features the versions of the winning songs that each broadcaster sent, and apparently most broadcasters have changed their song's title to one with a bit more "mass appeal". They are not translated in English. Kosm1fent Won't you talk to me? 17:10, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
- (EC) Sorry to say, but incorrect. The official rules for Junior Eurovision, which are also stipulated on the JESC article on Wikipedia, states strictly, that all songs must be written and sung in the national language (or one of the national languages) of the country being represented. Therefore, the list on each contest would include the song titles in both native language, as well as English translation. The EBU list for previous contest have always shown native language, But for whatever reason, they have decided to publish the list for 2011, using the English translations. Consistency should be kept throughout, year after year. Notability is vital. Wesley Mouse (talk) 17:15, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
- The EBU lists the songs exactly how the broadcasters send them, just like every year. The language rule has nothing to do with that. The website does not mention any "English translation" (and the "translated" titles are far from being accurate translations), so it would be best if we sticked to that. Unless you want to argue with a primary source...-Kosm1fent Won't you talk to me? 17:24, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
- Now that I looked at the EBU-published song list once more, i notice that only five songs (Russia, Latvia, Bulgaria, Ukraine and the Netherlands) are "translated". Kosm1fent Won't you talk to me? 17:28, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
- (EC) Sorry to say, but incorrect. The official rules for Junior Eurovision, which are also stipulated on the JESC article on Wikipedia, states strictly, that all songs must be written and sung in the national language (or one of the national languages) of the country being represented. Therefore, the list on each contest would include the song titles in both native language, as well as English translation. The EBU list for previous contest have always shown native language, But for whatever reason, they have decided to publish the list for 2011, using the English translations. Consistency should be kept throughout, year after year. Notability is vital. Wesley Mouse (talk) 17:15, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
- Negative. The official song list is the one published by the EBU: It features the versions of the winning songs that each broadcaster sent, and apparently most broadcasters have changed their song's title to one with a bit more "mass appeal". They are not translated in English. Kosm1fent Won't you talk to me? 17:10, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
- I have noticed constant reverts by yourself on edits made by Madlen T. I'm not sure if you are aware, but the list that is published on JuniorEurovision.tv, has been purposely published using the English translation for each song (with exception to the Belgian entry for some unknown reason). It is a known fact that all songs in JESC are performed in the native language, and should therefore be shown in the main article list as that of the native language, with English translation shown next to it (in the column provided). A list of song titles are also shown via here if this helps. Thanks - Wesley Mouse (talk) 16:58, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
It is a known fact, as in previous years of JESC, that ALL songs MUST be performed in the native language (or one of the national languages) at the contest finals. There has never been the case of each nation changing their song title into English translation for the sake of the final for JESC. In the main Eurovision, there is no language rule - however in JESC there is. I'm not sure why the EBU have decided to publish the full list using English translations only - but when you read each subsequent article on the EBU site, you will see that each song being sent to Armenia is being performed in the native language of the representing nation. I'm not arguing the fact that EBU is a primary source - but even a primary source is known to publish "typo" errors from time to time. Nobody is perfect. But the rules - set by the EBU are the ones that stand really. And if the EBU strictly state that songs MUST be performed in a native language, then the list should also show that. There is nothing wrong in showing both native and English versions in the article, using the sourcing from EBU and ESCDaily in the respective columns. Wesley Mouse (talk) 17:31, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
- Have you checked the song titles on the ESCDaily site? I don't think that Armenia's national language is English, but their song is called "Welcome to Armenia". Same with Moldova and "No no". Same with Georgia and "Candy Music". So that kind of defeats your argument. Besides, the language rule is applicable to songs, not song titles. The point is that five broadcasters decided to change their song titles, for whatever reason, and they are fully entitled to do that. Kosm1fent Won't you talk to me? 17:41, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
- Please provide sources for each respective broadcaster, that shows they have decided to change the song titles into English. Until then, then the official JESC rules about native language remains. There are no sources (apart from the English translation list from EBU) that shows song titles being changed. Wesley Mouse (talk) 17:44, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
- Firstly, you never answered my question. Secondly, provide sources that the song titles published by the EBU are translated into English. Kosm1fent Won't you talk to me? 17:46, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
- You never asked a question technically, only a questionable comment, in which you followed on by answering it yourself (which I found a little bizarre in all honesty). As for providing a source that states the EBU have published an English translation only. You only need to view the history of previous contests to see that native languages are always used - not to forget the official rules, which are very much covered by WP:N. Unless there is something that shows the rules have been changed, then we are not to assume they have just by viewing a list, which could easily be published into English translation for the sake of the majority of readers. Like I said previously, who are we to question the reasons as to why the EBU have chosen to publish in a different way than in previous years. facts are fact at the end of the day, and sticking to WP:N is by far more important, than to provide semi-incorrect details in an article. Wesley Mouse (talk) 17:52, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
- So you say that after eight years of the EBU posting the "correct" song titles, this year they suddenly decided to translate them "for the sake of the majority of readers"? And not all of them, but just five songs? - leaving "untranslated" songs like Belgium (which yourself noted as strange), Ukraine, FYR Macedonia, Belarus and Sweden? - leaving Lithuania with the translated title in brackets (?!?!) - poorly translating the Dutch song as "Teenager" ("Ik been en teenager" means "I am a teenager") and the Russian song as "Romeo and Juliet" (instead of "Like Romeo and Juliet") - while never mentioning a single thing about translating the song titles in English? This goes beyond the usual "typo" error, i'm afraid.
- You never asked a question technically, only a questionable comment, in which you followed on by answering it yourself (which I found a little bizarre in all honesty). As for providing a source that states the EBU have published an English translation only. You only need to view the history of previous contests to see that native languages are always used - not to forget the official rules, which are very much covered by WP:N. Unless there is something that shows the rules have been changed, then we are not to assume they have just by viewing a list, which could easily be published into English translation for the sake of the majority of readers. Like I said previously, who are we to question the reasons as to why the EBU have chosen to publish in a different way than in previous years. facts are fact at the end of the day, and sticking to WP:N is by far more important, than to provide semi-incorrect details in an article. Wesley Mouse (talk) 17:52, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
- Firstly, you never answered my question. Secondly, provide sources that the song titles published by the EBU are translated into English. Kosm1fent Won't you talk to me? 17:46, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
- Please provide sources for each respective broadcaster, that shows they have decided to change the song titles into English. Until then, then the official JESC rules about native language remains. There are no sources (apart from the English translation list from EBU) that shows song titles being changed. Wesley Mouse (talk) 17:44, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
- Forgive me for using sarcasm, but i doupt you'll get my point some other way. And I think we should involve CT Cooper (talk · contribs) again, because yet another discussion between us goes nowhere. Kosm1fent Won't you talk to me? 18:13, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
I have to agree with Kosm1fent; as he has stated, only 5 countries song titles have been translated. Why would EBU choose to produce a list with only a certain selection of song titles translated to English? We have a source there which shows that some song titles have been translated to English, do you have any source to say that this is a typo by the EBU? Yes, songs must be performed in their native language, but there is no rule which states that the title of the song must also be in the native language. I say that since the EBU have published this list themselves, it should be one of the most appropriate sources for the song titles. Lukex115 (talk) 18:27, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
- It isn't that "yet another discussion is going nowhere" Kosm1fent... it may be a case of miscommunication or even misunderstandings between us, which makes it appear like we are chasing each other in circles. On inspection of the official rules however, it does state the native language must be used, although the EBU and host broadcasters must refer to the song titles in English (as from 2006 onwards). I do find it strange that 5 songs haven't been translated though. Are the EBU taking drugs and confusing themselves (as well as others) with rules stating one thing, while they go about things in a completely different way. Wesley Mouse (talk) 18:30, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
- The EBU and host broadcasters must refer to the song titles in English? That definitely is not true, look at last year's song list. It contains many songs in a national language, as well as songs in English. E.g. Sweden's "Allt Jag Vill Ha", and Ukraine's "Mii Litak". Lukex115 (talk) 18:36, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
- I'm merely going off what I read, so please don't be uncivil by being patronising. Most ungracious of you. What I find strange though, is the EBU list itself shows majority English song titles, yet each article for the winning songs from their NFs (also published by the EBU) show the titles in native language. This list of native song titles is also published by ESCKaz.com (and they show their source as EBU), also ESCDaily.com show the same list of native titles. Would it be causing too much harm to show the list using both native and English, so that we don't offend people from each respective country? Wesley Mouse (talk) 18:40, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
- Uncivil? Patronising? I'm sorry but I don't understand where you've gotten that from whatsoever. Those articles are from a previous date, is it not possible that the song titles have been changed since then? Lukex115 (talk) 18:44, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
- I've got to agree on that last bit. The official song list wasn't published until last week (I would post the link to that article, but my browser is reporting Oikotimes as infected. Lovely) Kosm1fent Won't you talk to me? 18:47, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
- Uncivil? Patronising? I'm sorry but I don't understand where you've gotten that from whatsoever. Those articles are from a previous date, is it not possible that the song titles have been changed since then? Lukex115 (talk) 18:44, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
- In reply to Lukex, I do agree that it could be possible the song titles have changed, as things are constantly evolving every second of the day. So in hindsight, yes the EBU may have got a list of "new English translated" song titles. BUt like I mentioned to Kosm1fent earlier and also on his talk page (and please allow me to quote myself). "Working on articles isn't a war to prove who is better than the other. Editors are a unit, a team; and should try hard to work together, even if it means making compromises that we may or may not agree with. We must think for the majority of people who don't edit - the biggest part of readers who would rather read what we publish, rather than contribute. Remaining as neutral as possible is very vital when it comes to publishing any article to a high standard. Think about the wider audience, and not just the small team of editors on a project. For it is better to cover all angles, than to skip vital ones all together." Wesley Mouse (talk) 18:53, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
- Yes I agree with that quote, I'm not disputing that at all, I simply believe that we should trust the most reliable sources, and of course EBU is the most reliable when it comes to Eurovision. Perhaps it would be better to change the "Song" and "English translation" columns into "Song name in native language" and "Song name in English" or something similar? Lukex115 (talk) 19:00, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
- Now I like the sound of that idea Lukex, very plausible indeed. Worthy of a bright idea award, me thinks. (I'll see if I can find one, and gift it to you in due course). Having the columns labelled in that way is covering all angles, which in turn may allow both columns to remain constant and without further alterations, as we'd be covering all aspects from the start. Wesley Mouse (talk) 19:05, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
- Thank you, I shall get to work on that idea then! Glad we've found a common ground :) Lukex115 (talk) 19:23, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
- I concur. Very good compromise until the JESC news/fan sites or the EBU make up their mind, lol. Kosm1fent Won't you talk to me? 19:28, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
- Thank you, I shall get to work on that idea then! Glad we've found a common ground :) Lukex115 (talk) 19:23, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
Nooo now I have that Bucks Fizz song stuck in my head, after reading "make their mind up". Oh dear, my feet are tapping in time to the song - help! I fear I may have to spring into dance mode LOL. Wesley Mouse (talk) 19:31, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
What a Brilliant Idea Barnstar | ||
I, Wesley Mouse, hereby awards Lukex115 with this magnificent Barnstar, for his wonderful compromising idea, which also helped resolve a dispute peacefully. My the light from this barnstar shine brightly for an eternity, so that he may come up with more bright ideas in the future. Wesley Mouse (talk) 19:36, 17 October 2011 (UTC) |
Well done!!!
WikiProject Eurovision: Discussion on the use of navigation templates
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WikiProject Eurovision: Discussion on recategorizing
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WikiProject Eurovision Newsletter - June 2012
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Project Eurovision RFC discussion reminder
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WikiProject Eurovision Newsletter - July 2012
• WikiProject News • Issue #20 • July 2012 | ||
Home • Talk • Portal • Newsdesk • Archives | ||
Bienvenue! Willkommen! Welcome! Please be warm-hearted in encouraging everyone to do their best to contribute to all Eurovision-related Wikipedia articles, and welcome our new members to the project. It is easy for editors to get into conflict with each other, and things can get very nasty on the most trivial of issues, whether that be on the language of songs, the names of certain countries, or how we deal with incidents at the contest. In such circumstances it is worth remembering one thing: we are all here to build an encyclopedia, and the contribution of Eurovision to human knowledge can only be given justice if we work together and make articles, not drama!
Happy editing!
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Members The project had 90 members, with eighty-six active, and four inactive members at the time of publication. If you are no longer interested in WikiProject Eurovision then please remove your name from this list Have you encountered an editor who is interested in Eurovision? Then why not place our invitation template on their talk page and welcome them to the project.. | ||
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WikiProject Eurovision Newsletter - August 2012
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WikiProject Newsletter - August 2012 | ||||||
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Bienvenue! Willkommen! Welcome! Please be warm-hearted in encouraging everyone to do their best to contribute to all Eurovision-related Wikipedia articles, and welcome our new members to the project. The past month has been an eventful one for the project as a whole. Old dramas have closed, new ones have begun. Four articles nominated for GA review, three of them passed and promoted, with one of them making ProjectEurovision history by being the first annual contest article to ever achieve GA status. If it wasn't for the hard work and the many hours of team collaborations that we have endured on this project, then those accolades would never have been gained. Each of those article promotions are as a result of your continuous determination to be part of the best team this project has seen for a long time. There is a teamwork barnstar with this newsletter for you to cherish and you may display the award on your pages if you wish. Now we look to the months ahead and start preparations for Malmo 2013, and see if we can work to getting another annual article to GA status. Here's to you - the team of excellence.
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WikiProject Eurovision: Recent changes
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Please note that there have been some changes to operations surrounding Eurovision articles, these being that:
- Template names have now been modernised and/or megred into super-templates, for example Countries in the Eurovision Song Contest has now been merged into Template:Eurovision Song Contest making it even easier to find everything under one template. If you are planning to create a new template, please keep the standardised titles in mind. Other templates have been modernised and a full list of them can be found here.
- The Eurovision Song Contest and Junior Eurovision Song Contest articles have now been standardised to keep a consitancy throughout the project and to the genral reader too. Skeleton article drafts can be found for Eurovision Song Contest by Year and Junior Eurovision Song Contest by Year.
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WP:Eurovision Newsletter (September 2012)
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Members The project had 90 members, with eighty-six active, and four inactive members at the time of publication. If you are no longer interested in WikiProject Eurovision then please remove your name from this list Have you encountered an editor who is interested in Eurovision? Then why not place our invitation template on their talk page and welcome them to the project.. | ||
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Project Memorandum
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WikiProject Eurovision Newsletter - October 2012
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WikiProject Eurovision - Memorandum
Eurovision Mini Memorandum 30 June 2013
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WikiProject Eurovision Newsletter - July 2013
Issue XXXII | Project Eurovision monthly |
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At the time of publication the project statistics were as follows | ||||||
Total Number of Members | Active Members | Inactive Members | Total Number of Articles | Number of Good Articles | Number of Featured Articles | Require Improvements |
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WikiProject Eurovision Newsletter - August 2013
Issue XXXIII | Project Eurovision monthly |
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At the time of publication the project statistics were as follows | ||||||
Total Number of Members | Active Members | Inactive Members | Total Number of Articles | Number of Good Articles | Number of Featured Articles | Require Improvements |
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3 | 3 | 7 | 2 | 664 | ||
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WikiProject Eurovision Newsletter - September 2013
Issue XXXIV | Project Eurovision monthly |
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At the time of publication the project statistics were as follows | ||||||
Total Number of Members | Active Members | Inactive Members | Total Number of Articles | Number of Good Articles | Number of Featured Articles | Require Improvements |
74 | 51 | 23 | 4883 | 16 | 4 | 2076 |
23 | 1 | |||||
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WikiProject Eurovision Newsletter - October 2013
Issue XXXV | Project Eurovision monthly |
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At the time of publication the project statistics were as follows | ||||||
Total Number of Members | Active Members | Inactive Members | Total Number of Articles | Number of Good Articles | Number of Featured Articles | Require Improvements |
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WikiProject Eurovision Newsletter - November 2013
Issue XXXVI | Project Eurovision monthly |
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At the time of publication the project statistics were as follows | ||||||
Total Number of Members | Active Members | Inactive Members | Total Number of Articles | Number of Good Articles | Number of Featured Articles | Require Improvements |
68 | 51 | 17 | 4987 | 16 | 4 | 2204 |
2 | 3 | 1 | 81 | 836 | ||
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WikiProject Eurovision Newsletter - Issue 40
Project Euroision News: Issue 40 | |||||
Headlines Intervision Song Contest revival. Sochi to host the Intervision Song Contest 2014. Austria win the Eurovision Young Musicians 2014. Slovenia finished 2nd, with Hungary in 3rd place. |
Did you know that...? Cân i Gymru, organised by S4C is the Welsh equivalent of the Eurovision Song Contest. | ||||
At the time of publication the project statistics were as follows | |||||
Number of articles | Good articles | A-class articles | Feature articles | Require improvements | Number of members |
5166 | 23 | 0 | 6 | 2185 | 69 |
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WikiProject Eurovision - consensus discussion
There is a discussion regarding colour coding on articles taking place on the project talk page that requires input from as many project members as possible. Thank you, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 21:16, 1 June 2014 (UTC)
WikiProject Eurovision Newsletter - Issue 41
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This newsletter was delivered by MediaWiki message delivery (talk), on behalf of Wesley Mouse 15:49, 15 September 2014 (UTC)
WikiProject Eurovision Newsletter - Issue 42
Project Euroision News: Issue 42 | |||||
Brief headlines Repeated policy breaking and several other issues are causing great concerns within the project. A few active debates taking place across the project that require urgent attention and participation from many members. | |||||
At the time of publication the project statistics were as follows | |||||
Number of articles | Good articles | A-class articles | Feature articles | Require improvements | Number of members |
5509 | 25 | 0 | 4 | 2332 | 80 |
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WikiProject Eurovision Newsletter - Issue 43
→ Issue 43 ←
Headlines
Quality as standard: a few Eurovision articles have been nominated for FA status and one is promoted to GA.
Let Junior Eurovision battle commence!
Project membership breaks through the 100 barrier.
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At the time of publication the project statistics were as follows | ||||
Number of articles | Good articles | A-class articles | Feature articles | Number of members |
5590 | 20 | 1 | 4 | 109 |
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This newsletter was delivered by MediaWiki message delivery (talk), on behalf of Wesley Mouse 13:05, 12 November 2014 (UTC)
WikiProject Eurovision - Urgent Message
Dear Project Eurovision Member,
There is a serious discussion been created at the WikiProject Eurovision talk page that requires utmost attention from all, or as many members as possible, as this could bear a huge impact on the project as a whole. Please click here to read the discussion, and participate peacefully. Thank you.
This message was delivered at 04:41, 23 November 2014 (UTC) by MediaWiki message delivery (talk), on behalf of Project Eurovision Newsdesk
WikiProject Eurovision Newsletter - Issue 44
→ Issue 44 ←
Headlines
Review of 2014, and a look ahead to 2015.
Voting fraud from Turkmenistan and Bosnia-Herzegovina at Türkvizyon 2014
Udo Jürgens winner of Eurovision 1966 dies aged 80.
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At the time of publication the project statistics were as follows | ||||
Number of articles | Good articles | A-class articles | Feature articles | Number of members |
5620 | 21 | 1 | 4 | 111 |
• HOME • TALK • PORTAL • NEWSDESK • UNSUBSCRIBE • ARCHIVES • |
This newsletter was delivered by MediaWiki message delivery (talk), on behalf of Wesley Mouse 18:12, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
Notice of WikiProject Eurovision inactivity
We would like to take this opportunity to thank you for your contributions throughout your time with WikiProject Eurovision, and hope that you return to active editing in the near future. Regards! MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 08:37, 8 January 2015 (UTC)
This message was delivered by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 08:37, 8 January 2015 (UTC)
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