Talk:Pratihara dynasty/Archive 1

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Archive 1

Untitled

Hi, I've corrected some grammatical errors and cleaned up the language a bit. Hope no one minds.

Thanks, T Servaia 14:06, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

Reg: Pratiharas of modern times

This article should keep it's scope to Pratihara kingdom, and should not be adding sections about new pratihara's. It goes against the purpose of this article. 86.96.226.88 (talk) 20:09, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Title of the article

I undid the undiscussed move of the article from "Gurjara-Pratihara" to "Pratihar Rajputs". This article is about the empire -- not about the modern ethnic/social group (Parihars) claiming descent from the Imperial Pratiharas. The dynasty certainly did not use the self-designation "Parihar Rajputs" -- Google Books returns 0 results for Pratihar Rajput, 102 for Parihar Rajput, and 739 results for Gurjara-Pratiharas (ignoring hundreds of results for alternative spellings like "Gurjar-Pratiharas" etc.). At best, this can be moved to "Pratiharas" or "Pratihara dynasty" via a requested move. utcursch | talk 04:28, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

Gurjara-Pratihara actually does mean Pratiharas of Gurjara desa or Gujrat. Sometime ago i was watching a programme on sky tv, on a Gujrati channel. The programme was called "Gurjar Ras". I think it means "Gujrat news". It was giving news about Gujrat state. Gurjar is actually short for Gujrat or Gurjara desa.There is district called Gojra in Pakistan. It means land of Gojars or Gujjars. But, not everyone living in Gojra belongs to Gujjar caste. These are just places named after some castes or people. Rajasthan was called Rajputana, but not everyone living in Rajputana was Rajput. The same goes for Gurjara Brahmins which means Brahmins of Gurjara desa or Gujrat. Hope that helps. Desimann. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.121.200.192 (talk) 15:58, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

Gurjara pratihara doesn't mean Pratihara of Gurjardesh but it means Pratihara of Gurjara people.This can be confirmed by the careful observation of razor inscription.The term Gurjar is used in 4th line again where it is used for racial purpose.Moreover Rastrakutta records also confirm that they were Gurjars by caste e.g. Bagmura plate of indra 111 use the term Roaring Gurjara.Obviously here Gurjara denotes clan not country.Arab writers also confirm that praiharas were imperial Gurjars.Parihar are still a clan among Gurjars.

Vist this link to know that they were no doubt Gurjars. regards Mkrestin (talk) 13:24, 21 August 2010 (UTC)

Sir, on page 278 it says that "the Cedi king defeated kings of Vangala, Kasmira and Gurjara". So, the word Gurjara does stand for Gujrat as a place or country and not as a caste. When using religion and caste or clan together, religion comes first and then caste or clan. For example,muslim rajput, muslim jat, muslim gujar. When using caste and clan together, clan or tribe comes first and then caste. For example, Bhati rajput,chauhan rajput,janjua rajput, Gorsi gujar ,kalas gujar,khatana gujar, Gondal jat, sidhu jat, maan jat. When using caste or clan belonging to a country, region or area then country , region and area comes first and then the caste or tribe. For example, Punjabi rajput , Sindhi rajput, rajasthani rajput, Majhil jat, Doaba jat, Punjabi jat , Sindhi jat, Punjabi gujar, Rajasthani gujar, Kashmiri gujar. So, Gurjara Pratihara means Gujrati Pratihara or Pratiharas of Gujrat. Sir i hope you do agree that there is a place called Gujrat or Gurjra desa. Desimann. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.121.200.192 (talk) 16:42, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

It appears to me after reading the comments on this page that there is quite a lot of misunderstanding about the word Gujjar. Actually this is name of a race that came to India from Gorgia of present Russia. They came around first century AD and mingled in existing Indian communities. They are mentioned here as Pratihara, I did not get any clue to the meaning of that epithet. By my study the meaning is doorkeeper. In "Advanced History of India-Mujumdar and others", on page 169 some mention is made and that I wish to put here as is given.

About the middle of 8th century A.D. certain Gurjar Chiefs are represented as serving 
a Rashtrakut monarch as Pratihara (doorkeeper) at a sacrifice performed at Ujjain. 
The designation probably originated in this way, though the later tradition connects
it with Lakshman, brother of Rama, 
who guarded the doors of the later during the years of his exile. And so the epithet 
Pratihara, real meanig by dictionary is attendant. 

I feel this etymology of this epithet should be introduced in the article at its introduction part. Pathare Prabhu (talk) 05:34, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

It is looking clearly that some persons are trying to prove ' Pratihars ' as ' Gujjar ' on any cost . No doubt , V. Smith and some historians attached ' Pratihar ' with ' Gujjars ' who were of foreign origin without any doubt . V. Smith and other imperialist historian want to hunt two birds by one arrow -- first , provide a historical moral base for ' British rule ' and second to sow the seeds of division among Indian communities . Unfortunately , some Indian historian followed them blindly and Gujjars have made this as a question of their ' cast pride ' . They present ' Rajaur inscription ' and ' Jujra and Gurjar ' title as a proof in the favor of their claim . But they forget three basic facts --- 1-- There were three dynasties on the name of Gurjar - Pratiharas . First and oldest was of HARISHCHADRA Pratihar who was a Brahmin and established his kingdom at Bhillmal [Jodhpur] 550 a.d. approx . [ Ghatiyal inscription by SUGHCHHARAAJ ' the descender of Harischchandra brahmin pratihar dynasty ] Second was of DADDA 1 of Nandi puri ,who was present in the 575 a.d . Due to the time similarity of son of Harishchandra , R.C. Majumdaar and other expressed a possibility that this DADDA 1 was the son of Harishchandra . Though it is totally wrong , but if we accept this as a fact for one moment , then how we can declare Dadda as a Gujjar king or why Dadda himself and Huentsang declared Dadda as a Gurjar king ? Truth is that , Dadda 1 was gurjar king which had neither any relation with Harishchandra's Brahmin Pratihar dynasty nor with later Kshtriya Pratihar of Avanti .[ became famous as 36 kuli {Raj tarngini } and then ' Rajputs ]. Third dynasty was established by Naag Bhatt 1 [ 725 a.d. -- 750 a.d. ] who not only stopped Arabian invasion but uprooted ' Dadda's descender Jayabhatt 4 ' from NANDIPURI and established ' Bhatravaddha Chauhan ' on the place of Jayabhatta gujjar . If Naagbhatta were a gurjar , he would not have been displaced the Jayabhatta because ' Feudal order ' was totally based on ' Brotherhood or family members ' . 2--- Pratihar of Avanti or Ujjain never said in any OWN inscription like Gwalior inscription that they were Gurjars . Courtier poet of Mahendrapaal , ' Raaj Shekhara ' also never said that Pratihaar were Gujjars . These were Rashtrakuta and Arabians who used to call them Gurjara or Jujra because till that time Pratiharas had captured the ' GURJARATRA ' and it had become the center of power and shelter place till the permanent capturing of KANNAUJ . We should remember that there is a historical tradition to call casts and communities on the basis of places such as Gaud Brahmins and Gaud Kshtriyas on the name of GAUD [ Bengal ] , Gurjar Brahmins [ Brahmins of Gurjar desh ] etc. 3-- Where the question of Rajaur inscription is , we should remember that the meaning of language of this inscription was controversial and any one can check this with the help of NIRUKTA . — Preceding unsigned comment added by Yaudheya (talk • contribs) 06:48, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

All views regarding the origin of the dynasty including their being Gurjar or not, has been included with references.Views of scholars such as VA smith, RC Majumdar that the dynasty had Gurjar origin had been mentioned with the counter views of Dasrath Sharma.On wiki, various aspect/theories are covered with reliable sources, not the view of editor's like.Mkrestin (talk) 11:44, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

Sir Dashrath Sharma was not only one historian who rose the question of 'gurjar origin 'of Pratiharas . R.C.Majumdar himself was not definite about this . [ ref. Shrenya Yug '-- translation of Classical age ] . Beside this Pro. Bhandarkar also didn't accept the explanation of ' Gurjar pratiharanvaya of Rajor inscription . Beside this you should check the list of descenders of Harishchandra Dynasty of Jodhpur by GHATIYAL inscription .[ ref. -- Epigraphia indica by R.C.Majumdar vol. 18 pp 87 ff ] . Beside this you says that Harish chandra was the 'samant 'of Rashtrkutas while Harischandra's time was just after the decline of Gupt empire [ approx 550 a.d. approx -- according to R.C.Majumdaar ] and Rashtrakutas gained the power in initial of 8th century a.d. . So chronology of Pratihar kings is also incorrect .Please sir before conclusion , first reread carefully the basic inscriptions and views of other historians , specially about these three dynasties whose interlinking couldn't be proven . — Preceding unsigned comment added by Yaudheya (talk • contribs) 16:40, 26 January 2012 (UTC) yaudheya (talk) 16:50, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

Dear Yaudheya Ji!! On what basis are you claiming Harichandra line of Pratiharas as Brahmin.On page 222 of the book "History of Kannauj: To the Moslem Conquest" by Tripathi, it is clearly given that Harichandra was surnamed Rohilladdhi, which is very clearly a Ror Kshatriya signature. Again, one of the last surviving Pratiharas, who finds mention time and again in "Alha Khand" written by the Chandela bard, Mahal Si of Mahoba (forced later to shift to Uriyal fort by Parimal), is clearly defined as a Ror Kshatriya again by historian Dr. Raj Pal Singh. So, on what basis are you claiming that Harichandra was Brahmin?? Can you quote a single Brahmin surname from anywhere in India, which sound like Rohilladdhi or Rohadaddhi? Rorkadian (talk) 17:27, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

Pratihara

Hi, I have changed word parihar with Pratihara, as there is no evidence in The Imperial Gazetteer of India as well The Digital South Asia Library-Imperial gazetteer of India. There is only Pratihara Dynasty belongs to rajput People. RebelRobin (talk) 17:26, 29 November 2014 (UTC)

The Daddas

There is no connection shown between Dadda I-II-III and the Partiharas. I wonder why they are listed here at all. - Kautilya3 (talk) 19:04, 14 May 2015 (UTC)

I have now removed them from template (of Gurjara-Pratihara kings). - Kautilya3 (talk) 08:15, 23 May 2015 (UTC)