Talk:Maltese dog/Archive 2

This is an archive of past discussions about Maltese dog. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

Archive 4

Resolving dispute

As I wrote on the talk page of user Elm-39 (he asked not to post info there):

You can go over every single change at the history section of the article. One of those changes would be *http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Maltese_(dog)&diff=prev&oldid=267991313

There you can find out much on the content dispute.

It was narrowed up to these points:

1. Whether or not to mention the fact that Mljet is in today's Croatia
2. Whether or not to mention one of the Croatian names for the dog (French name included in the infobox)
3. Whether or not to mention the fact established by La Fédération Cynologique Internationale which says: "His name does not signify that he originates from the island of Malta" as the first sentence of the dog's standard.
4. Whether or not to include Bochart, in his "Hierozoicon," also quotes Callimachus to be correct.
5. Whether or not to include this sentence "During the first century, Publius, the Roman governor of Malta, had a Maltese named Issa of which he was very fond." just after the completely POV sentence "Maltese are generally associated with the island of Malta in the Mediterranean Sea" thus injustly strengthening the claim of the POV sentence.
6. Whether or not to include in the history section the entire Publius/Martial poetry, or perhaps in the trivia section.
7. Whether or not to include sourced sentences like "English writers seem to have taken for granted that the dog we call Maltese originally came from Malta; but not one offers the slightest proof in support of the assumption." hence deleting the sentence "Maltese are generally associated with the island of Malta in the Mediterranean Sea".

I belive that it would be biased to mention Italy, Spain, Lyons, Malta and some other countries which have less to do with the dog and not to mention Mljet in the context of Dalmatia and Croatia.

Pietru il-Boqli is full of accusations and disruptive, he offended Tool2Die4. Pietru il-Boqli started his negative approach by name calling, like East European, Croatian, Yugoslav, Italian. He is the only one who sees my editing as problematic.

I cannot stress enought that Pietru il-Boqli deleted sourced information with his POV editing and that the diff shows only his intervention.

Also I would like to mention that Tool2Die4 (also edited the article) stopped reverting my editing when I provided explanation of my editing on his talk page. Then Pietru il-Boqli offended him.

And finally, before I started editing the Maltese (dog) article it was completely Malta biased version which Pietru il-Boqli and some other editors (Tool2Die4 including) maintained.

Imbris (talk) 01:29, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

Holy crap, both of your edits are just bad. Why is it so hard to write a normal NPOV article?! "It is without doubt and most clear" ?! This does not belong to ANY wiki article. The edit from Maltese guy is much better, but I have doubts, since usually article of somebody who insults other people the way he does, can not be good. In my opinion you two should just forget about where you come from, because you are both nationalistic in the way you behave. That's a shame. The article should be edited by someone who is neither Maltese nor Croatian - or is at least capable of forgetting that for couple of minutes.

I've had enough of mysterious anons on Wiki. Don't presume on the situation and please, if you think you can do a better job, go ahead. we are a marvelous Machine (talk) 19:44, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

Why is Elm-39 insisting on reverting?

I do not see any reason for reverting the article before both Pietru il-Boqli and myself started editing the article. I belive that, quoting you: "Darn, that would have been fun...", fun has nothing to do with it. Every sentence I brought into the article is sourced (though some sources have been deleted by Pietru il-Boqli).

By reverting the article to the point before Pietru il-Boqli and myself started editing the article would be less neutral than ever in its history. Previously reached agreements would be denied, like Talk:Maltese_(dog)/Archive_1#History.2FOrigins.

Deletion would bring nothing, I suggest that we contact the appropriate Wikiproject first.

Contrary to Pietru il-Boqli's position that "This article (woof woof) demonstrated no such nationalistic blemishes till you arrived on the scene" I must conclude that the article portrayed a nationalist Malta's POV which has been seen through by editors such as Gordon and La Fédération Cynologique Internationale. This revert will deeply worsen the quality of the article as it is today.

Imbris (talk) 01:29, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

Chill. Don't you have any other interests on Wikipedia other than these dogs?? Or is insinuating your special POV into every possible article your primary interest :p Either way, I've moved on from this. If I see any edits of yours that, as before, fly in the face of Wiki policy, I'll take appropriate action. Otherwise, hands=washed :D את אמא כל כך שמנה, היא יושבת ליד כולם (talk) 01:38, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

Other names issue

The national dog of Malta is indubiously the Pharaoh Hound. Apparently there exist a toy breed of the Pharaoh Hound called in the Maltese language Il-Kelb tal-But. The article protects the vision of the breed as Maltese proper, even with such defences like Pharaoh Hound#Ethical Dilemma.

The Pharaoh Hound has an Egyptian Myth and simmilarly the Maltese (dog) has a Myth of the breed orriginating in Malta.

We can look at the other dog breeds to ascertain whether or not different names have been used:

• Bully Kutta in Pakistan and as Alangu Mastiff in India is apparently Indian but uses both names
• Great Dane - under the other names section even Old-French
• Afghan Hound - mentioning of Baluchi used name (part of Pakistan)
• Pug - mentions all sorts of names
• Pekingese - all sorts, spellings
• Bichon Frisé - spanish name also
• Basenji - full range of names
• Armant (dog) - several names (Ermenti not identified from which language it comes).
• Saluki - several names, if Saluki is the official name then Tazi is from some other language, which one?

I expect the administrators to warn Pietru il-Boqli to stop this "Or is insinuating your special POV into every possible article your primary interest" and simmilar sentences.

Imbris (talk) 01:46, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

Full protection

As indicated here, the article has been locked down for a week to end the editwarring. Please pursue constructive methods of dispute resolution. — Scientizzle 02:11, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

Is Imbris' disappearance to be taken as an admission of culpability/turn-over-a-new-leafyness? If so, I wish him well^^ the roof of this court is too high to be yours (talk) 23:54, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

Another unconstructive comment by Pietru il-Boqli who seems to doesn't know better. I am surprised to see that such editors exist on this Wikipedia because where I come from admins are very strict. -- Imbris (talk) 00:52, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

You'll find that things are a lot less dictatorial outside the gulags. Welcome to the West! את אמא כל כך שמנה, היא יושבת ליד כולם (talk) 09:36, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

If you are trying to be amusing, you should have learned that it is appropriate to end such remarks with a smiley. -- Imbris (talk) 15:34, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

I'll be sure to remember that :D את אמא כל כך שמנה, היא יושבת ליד כולם (talk) 15:45, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

This is ridiculous. Enough with the sniping back and forth. Further unconstructive comments may merit editing restrictions. Either have a civil discussion over the contents of this article or completely disengage. — Scientizzle 23:14, 5 February 2009 (UTC

So this page has full protection, right? I can't rollback every single change these two made? Darn, that would have been fun... Elm-39 - T/C 14:19, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

RfC: Are these information relevant for the article? 2

Utterly Absurd Editing

This is why Wikipedia is absurd. In almost every country in the world, the Maltese is roundly taken to have originated from Malta. Breeding bodies in every country that I could find online have the exact same listing, and have for as long as I've been alive (which is more than I'd care to say). However, on Wikipedia, it turns into a childish flame war, and the actual article itself mentions Italy, Croatia, and France before even mentioning Malta (which should be the ONLY country listed). The damn article should just be taken down altogether if old wives' tales, conspiracy theorists, and national origin homers dictate the obvious beginnings of the Maltese dog. Just my two cents... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.220.254.7 (talk) 02:51, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

A list of countries isn't itself problematic, it's any editorial pressure that renders one somehow more favourably than the rest, against the grain of sourced material. penitent (talk) 23:19, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

I feel that Mangojuice should know Pietru il-Boqli attempted to insert information like "Many of Callimachus' theses have since been discredited by scholarly and archeological inquiry.", something about Sicilian town of Melita was populated by Maltese people and Kelb Malti (a clear hoax , because the speakers of the Maltese language use the term Kelb Malti to describe their national dog Il-Kelb tal-Fenek as well.) He was also responsible for maintaining the article as if the dog is flawless; obscuring all negatives such as the Australian-wide research which shows that the breed is Australian most unsatisfactory dog.

• He even removed NPOV "by name" in
• Added weasel wording "most popularly" in

• Insisted on "the word Issa means Now in the Maltese language" and now speaks of classicists.
• this link is to describe how he added "so called for the high number of Maltese people that lived there"
• Pietru's first edit on the dog and complete POV, he is well known of accusing other editors of vandalism, at that time the article contained the sentence " His name does not signify that he originates from the island of Malta"

These are Utterly Absurd Editing as well as his accusations that Publius/Martial was ever omitted. What should be omitted is Pietru's editing which show clear Malta bias toward the issue. And Pietru (who claimed not interested in the article) must stop insisting to place the Publius/Martial content directly after POV sentences thus strengthening the claim of a one specimen over the entire historical breed. The flow of time and history should be of maximum importance and Pietru cannot change the course of history.

Imbris (talk) 20:18, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

Imbris, cut it out. I'm not going to go through this again, we've had enough of a time together (I must say, the fact we both got blocked and you started slandering me takes the cake). Yes, your attempts at manipulating this article are floundering; no, you should not feel threatened. It'll turn out all right in the end, promise. the roof of this court is too high to be yours (talk) 03:45, 5 March 2009 (UTC)