Talk:Pasi (caste)/Archive 1

This is an archive of past discussions about Pasi (caste). Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Archive 1

Rolled 1 year back

This article was in quite disreputable state (the lede started "Basically PASI are found in East Uttar pradesh and Bihar,") so I checked backwards and had to go all the way back to 28 October 2010, when User:WALTHAM2 last edited and some 'bots did a few fixes. Literally nothing positive had been changed since then, save a few "references" (it's unclear where/whether they were applied in the article), an a few cats and foreign-wiki links I retained. Otherwise it was all just uncited, poor formatting, etc. I also did some basic copyedit and fixed a lot of overlinking. Just letting folk know this was the point where the article was tidied up, though it certainly still needs work. MatthewVanitas (talk) 13:51, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

Pasi and their status

Paswan(pasi) are indian civilian Its clear accoording to modern history primitive caste. they lived in Faizabad Barababki,Bahraich,Lucknow,Raibareli,Sita,Hardoi,Lakhimpurkhiri,Shahjahapur, Varanasi,Gazipur, Allahabad, Mirjapur,Kanpur, Jaunpur, Gorakhpur, Pratapgargh, Sultanpur, Hardoi, Deoria Fatehpur, Azamgargh,Unnao like Dalera,Kajand,Nut,Mahre,Chamar,and Pasi.

In validation its very clear in world famous book Gazetteer of the province of Oudh.VOL. 2,--till H to N, year 1877, Imperial Gazetteer of india vol. ii 1908, District Gazetteer Khiri-1979, Unnao District Gazetteer, UP District Gazetteer Volume 10101053.

It wrote on page 4 in Gazetteer Rampur 1974 k, Pasi are posterity of Ahar, Ahir, Barmar, Beria, Bhuihar, Chauhan(except rajput who is not rajput)

Dalera, Khaujar, Nut, They cleaned forest and maked useful for huamn.

In 1996, famous english scholor " Sri R.B Rasel " wrote in his book,The tribes and casr of the central princes of the India " Pasi is a dravid cast " . they ruled large part of awadh, after some Rajput they had destroyed to their dominate and they establish to their dominate.

You are citing British Raj sources, which are not considered reliable. The name, by the way, is Robert Vane Russell, not "R. B. Rasel". - Sitush (talk) 18:42, 15 February 2015 (UTC)

More sources needed

There seems to be some issue about whether the Pasi are untouchables or not. As of yet, I have not seen evidence to contradict what is currently in this article. Reliable sources are needed to demonstrate this (a few unreliable sources have been mentioned above this section). Primefac (talk) 16:45, 18 February 2015 (UTC)

More sources that verify it in passing include:

• Oxford University Press
• Concept Publishing
• Indiana University Press

The attempt to alter this here would appear likely to be yet another example of sanskritisation: the present day community want to reinvent their traditions, for reasons that I would hope are fairly obvious. - Sitush (talk) 20:47, 18 February 2015 (UTC)

I have expanded this article a bit and will continue to do so. I've done a lot of reading on the subject over a long time but I find myself spread across a huge number of similar articles, trying to fix a huge number of similar problems. Incorporating what I've read will not be a quick job. What should be obvious now, and which I already knew, is that there are loads of sources that refer to the Pasi as untouchables and/or dalits. Those terms are synonyms.

As recently as a few hours ago, I got yet another appeal on my talk page that asked me to remove the untouchable thing. How can we? At best, someone needs to find some sources that say they are something else and thus we could balance things out with an alternate opinion in accordance with WP:NPOV. I have not seen a "something else", although that doesn't mean it is not out there somewhere. - Sitush (talk) 01:56, 21 February 2015 (UTC)

Sourcing

We do not use British Raj sources such as William Crooke or Robert Vane Russell, nor do we use sources that are affiliated with Indian communities (mainly because of sanskritisation). Thus, I've reverted to the last reasonably decent version of this article. I'll check the census stuff and reinstate if it is ok. - Sitush (talk) 06:40, 1 June 2015 (UTC)

Once more unto the breach

Shishirkc, it has been discussed multiple times on this page that whitewashing history is not acceptable in this article. Please stop. Primefac (talk) 17:23, 10 May 2016 (UTC)

Welcomed and warned. They would do well to read WP:3RR but I haven't used a template yet. - Sitush (talk) 17:26, 10 May 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 24 December 2016

This edit request to Pasi (caste) has been answered. Set the |answered= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

101ramsumer (talk) 12:00, 24 December 2016 (UTC)

KIndly remove the contents of pig rearing Wikipedia as this is objectionable things and heart me and my caste. who is chandra Bhan prasad to give the evidence about the pasi caste. Go to 1500 yers ago when Muslim emperor assailant on hindu and hindu king,, at that time they safe to own started untouchable pet at home. this is fact. So please delete the word "pig rearing from the Wikipedia. this circumstance has been stopped, no one like this in hindu caste system.

regards

 Not done. No valid reason given for removing sourced content. And if "this circumstance has been stopped", then it must have previously happened, right? Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 12:34, 24 December 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 28 February 2017

This edit request to Pasi (caste) has been answered. Set the |answered= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Please change "untouchable communities" to "communities" because of it not applicable any more. Santoshpasi (talk) 10:21, 28 February 2017 (UTC)

 Partly done - I have changed "are one of the untouchable communities" to "were one of the untouchable communities" - that is a statement of fact, and we do not try to re-write, or hide, history - Arjayay (talk) 11:23, 28 February 2017 (UTC)

Some Proposed Changes:

I read this article but what i found is it's misleading. The article writer though have provided sources from Chandra Bhan Prasad and Sarah Beth books but the provided information on these books is not totally true. What i know is my family or my ancestors never reared pig. Though, Pasis were involved in animal husbandry like most of the other peasants do along with agricultural activities. As per Chandra Bhan Prasad, if some people of his village were involved in rearing pig then it doesn't mean that entire pasi community people reared pig or its a tradition, it also comes under animal husbandry. Any cast people can rear pig for a bunch of people you can't blame entire community as pig rearers.

In his article he has already stated that out of 25 pasis in his village only 5 were rearing pigs! Is it right to say it as our tradition ? It could be their circumstances in his village. And what about the other 20 people ?. Also, he mentioned that those few people who reared pigs had stopped rearing them a decade ago which simply states that this was just because of the circumstances few people of his village were rearing pigs.

here's the source: https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=lXyWE6KbG8oC&pg=PA161#v=snippet&q=pasi&f=false

Also as far as Sarah Beth's source is concerned, he just said Pasi; a community of pig rearers without any fact or background. If you are stating something then provide at least some fact or data which can prove it. Say for an example, there are 100 people of a particular community out of them 5 are living in my village and all of them are thief, it doesn't mean the rest 95 are also thief. How can they say that without a survey ? If you see only 5 people that doesn't mean what these 5 people are doing is right and rest 95 are stupids. When they say they need to justify their statement, even Chandra Bhan has give better details than him.

The point i want to raise here, even if a few pasis would have reared pigs in past then you can't call it a tradition and for a few people you can't blame our entire community. Even in democracy people take 51% votes for majority. When you call something as tradition then it must be followed by majority of people. If that was a tradition then why it was not followed by majority of Pasis ?. It also comes in animal husbandry, pasis also had cattle, they were also farmers why the hell these people are not mentioning that and blaming it as our tradition. Its like the only thing that we were doing in past was pig rearing and nothing else. Even Chandra Bhan's data is contradictory. He calls it tradition and then states that only 5 out of 25 in his village were pig rearers.

I request Wikipedia to remove the word tradition and change pig rearing to word animal husbandry that would be more suitable.

Today i was going through various websites and articles about pasi community i rarely find any website claiming that we were pig rearers, even in Hindi wikipedia, writers haven't mentioned any such thing. Its very hurtful for me and my community people when we see such thing on Wikipedia, Pasis were involved in various activities like farming, animal husbandry, creating war equipment and other tools etc. Wikipedia has just given us a tag of pig rearers in the society. I seriously don't appreciate it ! May be it's not a problem in other countries but in our country its a big problem. Living with such a tag is like a hell which wikipedia has given to us. I will ask our community members to protest against this misinformation.

I don't know with what mindset these book writers specially Sarah Beth had called us pig rearers where Chandra Bhan Prasad's book itself state that a few people of his village reared pig. Then how it could be a tradition ?

The thing that i would like to advice the writer on Wikipedia that he/she would have better gone through other facts before claiming the entire community as pig rearer.

He (Chandra Bhan Prasad) can't blame each and every Pasi caste people that they had this tradition of rearing pigs. Which is totally false and i seriously condemn it.

here is wikipedia hindi link about our community which is totally different from this: https://hi.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E0%A4%AA%E0%A4%BE%E0%A4%B8%E0%A5%80

Other sources were also presented by the previous editor but the writer/reviewer just discarded them. May i know why he is 100% sure about one source that is Sarah Beth's book ?. He is simply ignoring other facts.

The last editor did not accept the sources provided by another editor that were of British writers(Who i believe had scientific thinking) but he is ready to accept the article of Chandra Bhan Prasad who even mentioned that we are born from the sweat of a Hindu God Parshuram, which is totally rubbish. Our constitution says us to have logical and scientific thinking. He is interviewing an illiterate person of our society. It seriously hurts us when a website like Wikipedia doesn't perform a better research before publishing such article.

Its like an abuse to our society. We were the farmers and also ruled in some areas of India. I don't know why people like Sarah Beth and Chandra Bhan Prasad are defaming our caste which is already a schedule cast. This creates a negative image of our community in India. I want Wikipedia people to please review my request and edit this article. Because of your article we are facing insult in the society. I don't want to change history, neither i am against it. But, better do some research before publishing any such article, which can make life worse for some people. We already face caste system and then an article comes with poor or few sources and defames us like pig rearers. I am very disappointed to see this article. Again, i would request Wikipedia editors to edit this article. At least the word tradition and pig rearing to animal husbandry — Preceding unsigned comment added by Warrior2425 (talk • contribs) 14:04, 8 April 2018 (UTC)

We have two sources that mention pig-rearing as a traditional occupation and we have your word for it that the Pasi were involved in more than that. I'm afraid your word counts for nothing when set against reliable sources. This is not about "blaming the community" and/or trying to "defame" them. I think Arjayay was being liberal in allowing the change from "are an untouchable community" to "were an untouchable community" - no-one will convince me that untouchability no longer exists in India, regardless of the legal restraints: we have an entire article that provides numerous sources showing that it does still exist and that communities that were once untouchable remain so - it is not a category from which people can raise themselves because it is determined by outside forces, unfortunately.

I will dig around to see what other sources may exist for the traditional occupation(s) but please also note that this is traditional - no-one is saying every Pasi community member today is engaged in pig-rearing. Do you actually have any reliable sources that say they were engaged in "animal husbandry"? We may be able to ameliorate the statement if some can be found, although I have doubts that we will be able to remove it completely. - Sitush (talk) 12:13, 19 April 2018 (UTC)

Please note that we already use The People of India to ameliorate the pig-rearing statements. That, too, is being quite liberal because the "states" series of The People of India is not usually considered to be reliable. - Sitush (talk) 12:16, 19 April 2018 (UTC)

pasi is not untouchable...

I again inform you that please change the status about pasi community, they are not untouchable in the indian society. I also see that your information about pasi community does not matching with Wikipedia english version to hindi version. Why? The hindi version shows some correct information about pasi community. And lastly i think you should get a survey in their society to get original status about pasi community. Please notice my view. Thank you! Abhiwiki1234 (talk) 10:18, 21 April 2018 (UTC)

As has been discussed multiple times, the key word is "were", as in "they no longer are". The Hindi Wikipedia might be okay with ignoring history, but the English Wikipedia is not. Primefac (talk) 22:43, 22 April 2018 (UTC)

Few parts of this article are wrong. I have already mentioned most things in my previous post. You can't say a community 'a caste of pig rearers' just because a person said it without giving any facts. This article lacks proper facts and that is why people are reacting on it from the date it is published.

This article has not faced much backlash just because still our community is growing in terms of education. Nobody is trying to ignore facts we are just asking to correct the things, as i already said in my previous post later or sooner its gonna change as more and more people of my community will get educated. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Warrior2425 (talk • contribs) 09:47, 5 May 2018 (UTC)

Pasi more history update you now

आपने पासी समाज को कुछ हद तक सही कुछ हद तक गलत दिखया है इसे कृपया सुधारे। Vibhor pasi (talk) 17:15, 10 January 2019 (UTC)

Dalits

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalit

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/618508/untouchable

John Webster (1999). Untouchable, Dalits in Modern India (Ed: S. M. Michael). pp. 11–19. ISBN 978-1555876975. — Preceding unsigned comment added by TimesGerman (talk • contribs) 18:54, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

Untouchable, Dalits in Modern India

• pls dont mension these type of word because now no any caste who are untouchable in India so pls edit it. and wright good and right word and sentence. Rajpiu Chaudhary (talk) 03:31, 24 March 2019 (UTC)

Can you help me re-update information

ये सही नही आप किसी भी समाज के बारे में इस तरीके से पेश नही कर सकते ,और ref कितना दूं मैं आपको ,अपना mail दिजीये मैं आपको avidence देता हूँ

    धन्यवाद Vibhor pasi (talk) 16:39, 11 February 2019 (UTC)

This is the English Wikipedia. If you wish to enact changes to the page, it will be very helpful to converse in English. Primefac (talk) 16:58, 11 February 2019 (UTC)

Please this is Very bad information about Pasi community so update new information

Adolf bijili (talk) 18:06, 29 March 2019 (UTC)

Pls Upadate pasi informatinon

Pls open lock Cgange ,bldy typr words about pasi cominuty ok ,many upar caste now untochable Bat you not mentioned

I repeat open lock Update information

My request for you ,who anyone command this page Adolf bijili (talk) 02:48, 30 March 2019 (UTC)

I hope r u do this Adolf bijili (talk) 02:58, 30 March 2019 (UTC)

Pasi society has been shown in a very dirty manner, rightly correct it or else I will do the case Wikipedia Adolf bijili (talk) 03:12, 30 March 2019 (UTC)

Ok u given me some day ,update more infirmation Adolf bijili (talk) 03:20, 30 March 2019 (UTC)

Adolf bijili, please stop removing other editor's comments. What exactly do you want editing? We are not going to remove the word "untouchable" or "dalit" because these are valid historical terms for this caste. Primefac (talk) 04:41, 1 April 2019 (UTC)

Historical term is wrong information

I am belong pasi comiunty This is not good, the pasi society has been told very wrongly, which is not us, U With this our society is unhappy, it has not been reformed at the earliest, this is damaging the image and mental harassment. So pls i requst you Change this bldy type word , U have neeed refrence or source i will provide you Adolf bijili (talk) 04:47, 1 April 2019 (UTC)

Please read through the talk page archives, which go into quite a lot of detail as to why we include these terms in the article text. Primefac (talk) 04:54, 1 April 2019 (UTC)

Wat are doing

I m provide you avidence Why are you mention bldy type word You dont no pasi hiatory ,, Y are you mot mention untouchble word other comiunty like chamar ,bhar, khatik ,why are you Menton only Pasi community , You not father wikipidia ok

How can i contect  with you 

Wats your gmail id Adolf bijili (talk) 02:58, 4 April 2019 (UTC)

REGARDING PASI HISTORY UPDATE

DEAR Sir,

Above your Wikipedia Page Pasi Caste related using abuse word & Write it such likes untouchable.  You have written about in Pasi society is very negative & Pasi community opposes it. If you Want about Pasi community so read Audh gazetteer but don't spread this types rumour in Pasi community is untouchable. Many Pasi King & freedom Fighter participating in independent of India. Adolf bijili is representative in our community so its humble request Allow writes with the true fact in Pasi caste & other Wise I have to Take action in Wikipedia Page.

Many Books Write-In about Pasi Coummnity so allow writing in Adolf bijili in Pasi Caste. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Neerajsaroj90 (talk • contribs) 08:03, 4 April 2019 (UTC)

Please see this discussion and this discussion about why we include that history in the article. Primefac (talk) 13:25, 4 April 2019 (UTC)