Talk:Ted Nugent/Archive 2

This is an archive of past discussions about Ted Nugent. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

LACK OF A CONTROVERSY SECTION

I just put this up here to note that the article lacked this section. Also I wanted to know why illegal hunting charges were listed under Nugent's activism. I made no changes to the article itself only asked some questions and made some comments here on the talk page. Now it seems some over zealous editor erased my question I'll ask it again. Why is Ted Nugent's illegal hunting charge listed under his activism? Zeelog — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.78.183.102 (talk) 14:13, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

There is a controversy section here, but it's called "activism". Much of it is just attacks on him, much like every controversy section in Wikipedia, but without the integrity to call it that. 98.101.227.58 (talk) 22:24, 27 September 2014 (UTC)

I would like add, why isn't there a section on Nugent's long history of racism? 1. He was banned from the city of Houston's venues for a racisr rant vs Latinos. 2. He has a long history of dressing up in racist parodies of American Indians. 3. He appeared on a white supremacist radio show. 4. He gave a racist rant in a show in Iowa about how he was glad to have an all white audience. 5. His hatred for Obama is in many eyes largely motivated by racism. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.62.43.120 (talk) 23:47, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

Apparently, some people think Wikipedia's "Biographies of Living Persons" rule means that no one can mention anything about this clown's personal life before 1990 - no matter how well sourced and accurate - because it was just THAT disgusting. Carlo (talk) 22:29, 22 January 2014 (UTC)

Cited /Credited quotes

As a person who is an activist in addition to a musician, perhaps the following quotes by him, as published by NY Daily News, should be presented to better frame Mr. Nugent's political views.

Immigration policy: "We should put razor wire around our borders and give the finger to any piece of s— who wants to come here."

Middle Eastern policy: "We want to go to Saudi Arabia, man, and see if we can't get a four iron and knock people's laundry off the top of their heads. Wear laundry on your head and die, is the basic theme of the Damn Yankees [Nugent's band in the 1990s\]."

Health care policy: "The government must stay out of my life. If there are weenies who are in the liability column of our nation, tough s—."

Non-Americans: "Foreigners are a—holes; foreigners are scum. I don't like 'em; I don't want 'em in this country; I don't want 'em selling me doughnuts; I don't want 'em pumping my gas; I don't want 'em downwind of my life."

Gun control and rape policy: "Anybody that doesn't think it is better to blow someone's brains out than to be raped, deserves to be raped."

Hillary Clinton: "This b— is nothing but a two-bit whore for Fidel Castro."

Heidi Prescott, president of the Fund for Animals: "Who needs to club a seal when you could club Heidi?"

The apocalypse: "The war is coming to the streets of America and if you are not keeping and bearing and practicing with your arms then you will be helpless and you will be the victim of evil."

Source: NY Daily News

Uncredited quotes

Fixed the reference for the 1968 jam session in New York with Jimi Hendrix, et. al. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.169.189.226 (talk) 18:03, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

I deleted the follow paragraph in accordance to wikipedia's standards on Biographies of living persons:

Nugent's right-wing views translate to his politics. During a concert in 2007, while Barack Obama was campaigning for president, Nugent said to the audience "Obama, he’s a piece of shit. I told him to suck on my machine gun."need more than a broken link In the same interview, he said regarding Hillary Clinton ,"I was in NY and I said hey Hillary—you might want to ride one of these into the sunset you worthless bitch." In an interview with Royal Flush Magazine, Nugent was asked about his views of U.S. President Barack Obama, and he responded: "I think that Barack Hussein Obama should be put in jail. It is clear that Barack Hussein Obama is a communist. Mao Tse Tung lives and his name is Barack Hussein Obama. This country should be ashamed. I wanna throw up."

Besides the obvious formatting issues present in the paragraph, there are no sources cited. Wikipedia's policy on Biographies of living persons says, "Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced—whether the material is negative, positive, neutral, or just questionable—should be removed immediately and without waiting for discussion." I did just that. If you object or have credible references to the section in question, please post here and allow for discussion. Eaglecap Backpack (talk) 19:00, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for pulling this until we get a source. There are a ton of sources, though the trick will be determining the best or most reliable. Here's one, and a search reveals more.

For the second quote, we find this article, and more. I'll add the ones I found, and others can improve as desired. Again, thanks for taking the initiative. Bakkster Man (talk) 21:44, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

"White Town" comment

Is this: worth mentioning? Stonemason89 (talk) 00:06, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

No. Violates BLP NPOV and Undue Weight. 72.128.202.20 (talk) 07:34, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

It does not violate BLP, as the material can be sourced reliably. For that reason I do not believe that the 3RR rule should be overridden. Nor does it violate NPOV, as the article does not take a stand on the declaration. However, it may violate undue weight. (That's not a BLP violation.) This incident did receive attention in Dubuque, but I don't see any coverage beyond Dubuque. Since the subject is a nationwide star, an incident in a small city that didn't get wider attention might not be worth including.   Will Beback  talk  08:09, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

This talk page needs Archiving

• Unless there is opposition I will copy/paste old discussions into a archive page and consider auto archiving threads maybe after 30days. Any and all comments welcome. Mlpearc powwow 16:04, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

*Well it's done. If anyone disagrees then undo it. Mlpearc powwow 23:03, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

I'll be back. Mlpearc powwow 01:20, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

Archiving is fine, but I disagree with your decision to restore off-topic postings. This is not a forum, and it's typical to remove comments that are unrelated to improving an article. I don't see what purpose is served by restoring a comment that says, "HI TED, YOU ARE SO VERY MUCH A PART OF HOW I THINK. MY PA MADE NINE LANDINGS UNDER FIRE IN THE JAPANEESE ISLANDS IN WW2. I WILL SAY NO MORE UNTIL YOU CONTACT ME. " Can you explain why you think comments like that could result in improvements to the article?   Will Beback  talk  00:51, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

In an article I can see your point. You can remove whatever you like from this page. To me, whatever is posted to a "Talk" page becomes part of that page regardless of topic. Mlpearc powwow 01:20, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

Ordinarily it'sunderstood that on-topic discussion is sacred and ought not to be touched by others, except, say, for a bit of indentation corrections to keep things straight. But strong personal attacks, vandalism, and chatty off-topic fan/forum stuff regularly gets deleted, the last on the basis of WP:NOTAFORUM, a link I failed to mention in my earlier clean-up. WP:TPOC says merely disruptive chatter is a borderline case, so I didn't press the point, but I think it's usual (IME, anyway) to excise these unconstructive insertions. If it weren't, pages like Talk:Justin Bieber would be even worse than they are now. — JohnFromPinckney (talk) 02:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

Ref 35

Regarding ref 35 ^ "Texas Monthly Talks". Texasmonthly.com. Retrieved 2010-11-25. I am having trouble finding the original quote. The website does not list Nugent. Additionally, the quote makes no sense as MA has an alive and well concealed weapons law. Any ideas on where we can find the actual quote? Is there any possibility that it's fabricated? Basket of Puppies 04:50, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

Professional musician?

"Performing professionally since 1958" ---> Really? Ted has been a professional musician since age 9? That seems highly unlikely, can this statement be somehow clarified or sourced? Maybe he has been performing publicly since 1958. DFS (talk) 00:07, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

Good catch. I found a source from 2008 which says:

• It's a milestone night for the Motor City Madman, who will celebrate both his 50th anniversary of performing and his 6,000th (or thereabouts) concert with this home state appearance at DTE.

I've altered the text to match.   Will Beback  talk  00:45, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

residency?

Is Mr. Nugent a resident of Michigan, Illinois, or Texas? The article claims he's a "longtime" resident of Texas, but he's only been registered to vote here since January 2009. I wouldn't call that a long time. I can email his voter registration information to anyone who's interested; it's also publicly available from the Texas Secretary of State.

It would appear from the article -- in multiple places -- that he's a long time resident of Michigan. In fact, as late as 2007 he was considering running for governor of that state. But he also lived in Illinois for a time as a teenager, and that state's Republican party wanted him to run for the U.S. Senate. Someone (not me) recently added the category of "Michigan Republican" to the article. Someone else (also not me) deleted that very same category.

So where is he a legal resident? Is he registered to vote in more than one place? Can the article be a little more consistent about where he's from?

Thanks, 70.116.91.46 (talk) 05:29, 13 March 2012 (UTC)

Self admitted draft dodger

This really needs to be added into the article, He admitted in a Rolling stone interview in the late 1970's that to avoid the draft, he took very intense steps to avoid being drafted which included urinating and defecating on himself without removing his pants for several days until he showed for his draft appointment.

http://www.newshounds.us/2007/08/26/proof_ted_nugent_is_a_draft_dodger_will_hannity_keep_defending_him.php

www.liveleak.com/view?i=9a1_1250550290

www.huffingtonpost.com/.../the-common-bond-between-d_b_564288.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by Americium-con (talk • contribs) 23:23, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

I added the link to the selective service history in the appropriate section with questions about 1Y and 2S. Bakkster Man (talk) 12:49, 18 April 2012 (UTC)

ha ha, apparently you lost the edit war to someone more determined! Considering his actively putting himself forward as a patriot/public figure you'd think draft dodging would be note worthy. 66.129.224.36 (talk) 17:58, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

If he is a draft dodger it needs to be here. I've asked stack exchange's history beta: http://history.stackexchange.com/questions/7410/ted-nugent-and-draft-dodging Protectthehuman (talk) 12:30, 23 January 2013 (UTC)

Agreed, very suspicious that this is not mentioned here, is some PR agency cleaning this page? http://gawker.com/5983634/patriotic-american-ted-nugent-shit-his-pants-to-avoid-the-draft --Hontogaichiban (talk) 07:19, 16 October 2013 (UTC)

His last examination in 1972 designated him 4-F

The Selective Service record only shows one medical examination 8-28-69 designating him 1-Y.The 4-F designation happened 12-15-72 after the classification system was changed and all 1-Y's were reclassified 4-F.

http://msgboard.snopes.com/politics/graphics/nugent.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selective_Service_System#Classifications 007TLH700 (talk) 10:53, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

per [the independent, 28 May 2006, via snopes]: He admits to being a draft dodger but denies the High Times account

(interviewer)"So basically ... you didn't want to get your Michigan ass blown off in Vietnam" (Nugent) "Correct. I did not want my ass blown off in Vietnam"

While I can see why one might dismiss a high times interview as a reliable source, I think The Independent, 28 May 2006 quoting the man himself counts as a reliable source. Perhaps someday a quotable source will ask the Nug (and be answered) how he got his 1-Y in 1969. 66.129.224.36 (talk) 18:18, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

In the Independent interview he does not admit dodging the draft,he admits not wanting to be hurt/killed in Vietnam and being enrolled in college.According to the Independent article He doesn't even realize that a 1-Y is a health deferment so it's possible he has no idea why they gave him the 1-Y.He tells the same story on CNN.He says the High Times story was a prank on the "high" reporter and told the prank story to the Texas Tribune.The videos are on Youtube if anyone wants to find them.

The Independent,5-28-06,from Snopes "Correct.I did not want my ass blown off in Vietnam" "But you did dodge the draft." "I had a 1Y [student deferment].I enrolled at Oakland Community College."

CNN video Intense Ted Nugent Interview 5-18-11 pt. 1-4

The Texas Tribune Video: Ted Nugent on Draft Dodging 007TLH700 (talk) 15:33, 13 January 2013 (UTC)

Broken tooth

I'm not a Ted Nugent fan, but I've heard this story from a few people. During the late 70s , Nugent was playing at Arrowhead Stadium in Kansas City, Missouri. According to the story, someone threw a steel ball bearing at him, hitting him in his mouth, breaking a tooth. He said, again, according to the legend, that he would never play in Kansas City again. From an interview in the Bangor (ME) Daily News of July 28-29, 1979, he mentions his chipped tooth and how it knocked him out. http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=2457&dat=19790727&id=zhA9AAAAIBAJ&sjid=VS4MAAAAIBAJ&pg=2461,5196199 I don't know if this is worth including in the article on Nugent and it doesn't mention his claim of never coming back to Kansas City. Jtyroler (talk) 09:29, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

Ted Nugent Military Service

I see that there is controversy out there as to whether Ted Nugent was a draft dodger or not, but there should be some mention of his military service regardless. Wilsonshire (talk) 21:14, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

If the Snopes medical examination is the real deal, then there is evidence that the story of Nugent's draft-dodging is true. Don't understand why it can't be noted that his last exam was 4-F when he is clearly a healthy guy. Stevetac (talk) 03:16, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

The source says: "Hard to read on the document, but it may say 4-F." I also don't see "clearly a healthy guy". It is also a lame source and a primary document.--Canoe1967 (talk) 07:01, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

Why should there be "some mention" of his military service, when in fact he never served in the military? This seems to be a rather naked non sequitur. If he's a draft dodger, then he may be guilty of a crime and WP:BLPCRIME applies. Federales (talk) 23:04, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

His service, and the way he may have avoided it are notable via multiple articles and interviews he participated in. This is clearly a WP:WELLKNOWN exception. Even BLPCRIME itself specifically states "For people who are relatively unknown, editors must give serious consideration to not including"

Now, any particular detail in the story must be well sourced, and looking at copies of his medical report found online and interpreting them would seriously fail WP:RS and WP:OR imo. Gaijin42 (talk) 15:13, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

I've added a short paragraph, well-sourced (I believe), with that added benefit of mentioning where he went to college. I've also tried to avoid WP:UNDUE by not giving this its own section. -- John Broughton (♫♫) 21:07, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

It's not well-sourced and you utterly failed to avoid WP:UNDUE. Federales (talk) 21:11, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

Ah - perhaps you could enlighten me - and other editors - as to why you don't think The Smoking Gun is a reliable source? And also, how much text about Nugent's college career and his military deferments do you think is appropriate? -- John Broughton (♫♫) 21:47, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

Mr. Nugent may have had fun telling false stories to High Times and others. Snopes and The Smoking Gun have vast collections of trivial things like this but we do not. If he fell in a puddle at one point they would probably mention that as well. If it were covered widely by mainstream media (notable) then we may decide to include it here as well. Since mainstream media probably considers these incidents as either trivial or untrue, then so do we.--Canoe1967 (talk) 07:31, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

TSG is tabloid journalism, and as such it is never a reliable source for contentious material in a BLP. Furthermore, the material in question is UNDUE because it has no bearing on any noteworthy aspect of Mr. Nugent's life or career. The only reason it has ever been published is that it has become fodder for sophomoric cheap shots by those looking to discredit Nugent's political views. Shorter version: it's non-encyclopedic gossip-cruft. I hope this helps. Federales (talk) 08:36, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

TSG is a tabloid. But Nugent took specific action to be interviewed in both High Times and Independent. Its not defamatory to quote Nugent talking about Nugent. If nothing else, it sheds light on his personality, and willingness to jerk interviewers around. Gaijin42 (talk) 15:16, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

There seems to be a misunderstanding with WP:UNDUE - that editors can decide that something is not a "noteworthy" aspect of someone's life, and thus should be excluded, no matter how much press coverage it had. Nor does Wikipedia policy say that editors should examine why something has been published ("to descredit Nugent's political views"), and then use that (subjective) evaluation to determine whether to include it or not.

What is at issue is whether there has been coverage of Nugent's deferment(s) in reliable sources. Here is what I've found:

• Jensen, Dennis. "Ted Nugent: Call Him Chickenhawk." Rutland Herald. 28 May 2006.
• The Independent. "Ted Nugent: Off His Rocker?" 28 May 2006. (at tednugent.com)
• http://www.contactmusic.com/news-article/nugent-ive-made-up-for-missing-vietnam_31_05_2006
• Cizmar, Martin. "Ted Nugent Talks Guns, Meth, and Hippies Before NRA Convention in Phoenix." Phoenix New Times. 14 May 2009.
• Rogan, Johnny. Byrds: Requiem for the Timeless. London: Rogan House, 2011. ISBN 978-0-095295-408 Parameter error in {{ISBN}}: checksum-8 (pp. 136-138).
• http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0412/75309.html (April 2012)
• http://www.snopes.com/politics/military/nugent.asp (April 2012)
• http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/24/dee-snider-reminds-republicans-ted-nugent-dodged-vietnam-draft_n_2544864.html

-- John Broughton (♫♫) 16:01, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

"Nor does Wikipedia policy say that editors should examine why something has been published ("to descredit Nugent's political views"), and then use that (subjective) evaluation to determine whether to include it or not."

Wikipedia policy absolutely DOES say that. See WP:BLPSTYLE: "Beware of claims that rely on guilt by association, and biased or malicious content."

And I note for the record that aside from any issues about sourcing, you have still not established relevance. Federales (talk) 16:15, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

"Mr. Nugent may have had fun telling false stories to High Times and others". If so, I would say that lying about dodging the draft in magazine interviews is a rather relevant detail. Either the man dodged the draft, or he lied to magazines and CLAIMED to have dodged the draft. And almost anytime he's mentioned, SOMEBODY brings that up. It's not being in this article is a clear example of bias. Carlo (talk) 22:08, 22 January 2014 (UTC)

BLP violation removed

A BLP violation has been removed. -- Dianna (talk) 23:25, 5 June 2013 (UTC)

Edit request on 5 August 2013

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Please add 'Ted Nugent Black Power 2013' under 'Tours' heading Stilyou (talk) 17:11, 5 August 2013 (UTC)  Done including rolling stone citation. Gaijin42 (talk) 17:16, 5 August 2013 (UTC)

Remove controversial reference regarding gun ownership and hunting.

In this day and age everyone finds everything controversial, so I believe the remarks “some find controversial” adds nothing to the profile. Let’s start adding “some find controversial” to everything that Lady Gaga supports; or the same that Morrissey is a vegan…same difference. Wiki is to be neutral and pointing that someone finds controversial leads the reader. Remove it and let the reader decide. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Endoxa52 (talk • contribs) 17:58, 20 September 2013 (UTC)

Tone

majority of the article is basically an anti-Nugent gangbang. so typical of wp for any non-leftist. the articles on any of the mass murderers like stalin or mao are more even handed than this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.128.140.137 (talk) 16:43, 14 November 2013 (UTC)