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Hello, D.Lazard. You have new messages at Talk:Variable_(mathematics).

Message added 20:04, 28 August 2024 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Message added 20:04, 28 August 2024 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Hello, D.Lazard. You have new messages at Talk:Indeterminate (variable).

Message added 20:04, 28 August 2024 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Message added 20:04, 28 August 2024 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Ok, let's try to discuss here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:RSA_(cryptosystem)#Safe_Primes,_in_RSA_Key_Generation No "reliable sources" are needed here. Here you just need to think with your own head. This is math. In any case, I do not owe you anything, and I do not demand anything from you.

@D.Lazard, Due to the condition of the indeterminate (variable) article, I figured it would be nice to have an area where we can discuss with one another a (somewhat informal) definition of "indeterminate" so that we can have a common ground when editing the article. Given that the term is somewhat ill-defined in literature, I suggest that for this conversation we do not rely too much on exact sources.

I can start. I have a few issues with the definition as it currently stands "This is just a symbol used in a formal way"

(1) Doesn't mean anything, as just about every symbol in math can be described this way. For instance, the symbol '+' is used in a formal way, does that make it an indeterminate? Obviously not.

(2) As an informal statement, it is unenlightening, and would only leave a reader unfamiliar with the subject more confused.

(3) It cannot be easily formalized, as the most obvious meaning "A variable that represents nothing" does not satisfy the algebraic requirements of such an item, namely, equality of polynomials. Since any equation involving an indeterminate by this definition would vacuously form an identity, thus 3-2X = 4 is true. Since all resolutions of X (none) make this true; or more clearly, there does not exist a resolution of X which makes the equation false.

Do you have other proposals for the definition? Farkle Griffen (talk) 19:32, 26 August 2024 (UTC)

- Again, this is not the role of Wikipedia to propose definitions. Wikipedia, as every encyclopedia, must only report the common knowledge. So the discussion on a definition of an "indeterminate" has no place in Wikipedia. The only relevant question is whether the definition of the article is the same as the most common definition and whether significant variants of the definition are correctly reported. The discussion you suggest should be placed in a mathematical forum, which Wikipedia is not. D.Lazard (talk) 19:57, 26 August 2024 (UTC)
- The issue is that the introduction is not the most common definition, in fact, it seems there is no reasonable "most common definition" since very few authors in algebra make an attempt to define it.
- But that is not the point of this discussion. While the topic is "Informal definition of indeterminate", the point of this discussion is to find common ground in reference to the article. If things continue as they have been, it seems we will not reach a satisfying conclusion.
- If you would like to change the exact topic we can. The goal is to understand your side so we can ease the tension and actually work on improving the article. Farkle Griffen (talk) 20:20, 26 August 2024 (UTC)

Hello, D.Lazard. You have new messages at Talk:Variable_(mathematics).

Message added 17:35, 3 September 2024 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Message added 17:35, 3 September 2024 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Farkle Griffen (talk) 17:35, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

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